Dana Point Harbor AA Hardcore Meeting, Dana Point, California

November 20, 2006 at 8:16 am (12 step program, Alcoholicos Anonimos, Alcoholics Anonymous, Blogroll, crime, Dana Point Harbor, harassment, Orange County Alcoholics Anonymous, Psychological Harassment, Psychology, South Coast Recovery)

Psychological harassment, being the broadest kind of harassment, is malicious and criminal. Members of Alcoholics Anonymous and NA terrorize, demean, and stalk one individual to cause humiliation and isolation, overall harm. Sensitising the victim to topics such as rape, child molestation and more, these people, some of whom may have actually committed such heinous crimes, have proven to be weak morally, and empty intellectually. One victims account of being terror stalked, psychologically raped by individuals acting as a groups at AA and NA in Dana Point Harbor, California.  

 Moral Harassments and  Psychological Violence    

For near three months, while attending manditory meetings through a recovery program, at the AA/NA meeting held at the picturesque harbor of Dana Point, California, I was psychologically harassed by members of AA as well as NA.

The harassments included gaslighting, directed conversations, and an insidious tactic that involved adding strange and unnatural flavoring to the coffee that I was to drink, and watching me with pleasure as I would try to find the untainted cup, or the untainted hot water dispenser.

The organised level of such an on going harassment was very evident, as they had always carefully planned the seating, and directed certain topics within the monologues spoken, at many of the meetings, that I attended Monday to Friday during the months of August and September of this year.

Sensitised to certain themes while residing at South Coast Recovery, these discussions in the meetings were to cause the victim discomfort, hyper-self consciousness, and demoralization. I might add that I endured an incredible level of harassment while at South Coast Recovery, and what I experienced at the meetings of AA/NA were auxilary to the psychological undermining experienced at South Coast Recovery.    

A resident in the South Coast Recovery program I endure nightly harassments with unnaturally strong harassment odours as well as chemical fumes put around me while in bed. The chemical fumes caused a discomfort in my mouth, such as one might feel if inhaling cleaning aerosol, as well as causing a generalised numbness and feelings of anxiety. Clients would alienate me so to cause me to feel that other were talking about me. 

Female clients, early in my stay at South Coast behaved in subtle ways, as if to cause me to feel that they considered me to be a homosexual. All of this served to undermine my self worth, composure, and well being, and alienate me in a gener al sense. At South Coast Recovery  I endured a daily level of psychological undermining, which was organised, and included several lower staff members, and clients.

At the outside meeting, NA members would stalk me in the distance, large men in sweatpants and hooded sweatshirts. Though I had no problem with the coffee at the NA meetings, I was none the less victim of psychological stalking harassment. Again as in the AA meetings, I was victim of attempts to break my mental stablity with directed conversations, monologues, and stalking postures, all geared towards undermining my morally self worth. 

The overall effort, in conjunction with the psychological abuse I endured at South Coast Recovery, was to casue me to feel intense humiliation, with the thematic underlying topics of sexual misconduct in regards to children, or adults. Stalking was so evident in the seating arrangements, and during the meetings these stalkers would stare and glare, especially when topics or words relating to of heinous sexual misconduct, or young children were mentioned.

This kind of harassment may result from a certain behavior, repeated gestures and acts, or words that the person harassed sees as hostile and undesirable. What makes these acts a form of harassment is the way they endanger the dignity, as well as psychological and physical integrity of the person harassed, and turn her/ his work space or study space into hell.


A structured environment such as one found in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, or 12 Steps groups are ideal venues in which the practice of terror stalking, psychological violence, as well as moral  harassment can take place. Members, though not all, are ex-cons, serial criminals, and generally people with hidden dark secrets. Their moral characters are very questionable, and given the right insentives they may easily be lead into repeated psychological terror stalking aimed at undermining an innocent individuals psychology, and causing them intense mental stress, perhaps for pleasure.


I have never been arrested for committing a crime, and I have not hidden dark secrets, nor a sorted past. The people who took part in what is presented above committed a crime that is not only close to intense slander, but heinous.

Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12 Step Groups may very well help people, but from my experience there is an element within these groups that behave as criminal mobs out to harm people, if that means that they can have power and control. The experience that I endure is similar to rape, in that the victim is powerless, and totally at the mercy of the perpetrator.         

links http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/ http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter78.htm



  1. Revealing Psychological Harassment, methods to undermine a person’s life « Psychological Harassment and Violence said,

    […] Dana Point Harbor AA Hardcore Meeting, Dana Point, California […]

  2. minigh dimol/waterinch said,

    From sourse found on gang stalking world:

    If you have not been or are not being poisoned and/or drugged, you are not being “gangstalked”. “Gangstalking” is described on some websites as a bunch of people “just” following you around doing strange skits. That would just be annoying compared to what it really is. Although it might be possible that victims are not aware of where their “symptoms” are coming from. I thought I was physically ill at first, but then began to see a relationship between my “illnesses” and what can only be described as felony assaults.

    The mental and physical effects described by most targets are achieved by covert poisoning using more or less common neruo-interrupters (organic phosphate pesticides), psychotomimetic agents (drugs) and irritants. Some of these chemicals are mixed when needed with additives to make them behave in desired ways. Some are intended to absorb through the skin and others are intended to out-gas. They are not all used in all the described ways. Some, what I will call irritants, are sprayed on the target and act locally on the skin or spread out slowly with various affects. One perp will divert your attention while another one sprays from a “breath spray” size can on bare skin behind or where you won’t notice. They always make a noise like clearing their throat so you won’t hear the sound. I caught them doing this too. Some drugs are mixed with dispersant’s to make them out-gas. These are squirted at or near an isolated target using covert methods. In remote places where possible, constant “Area gassing” is done from neighboring houses. The perps spent a couple days at my neighbors installing the devices they use to disperse their chemicals. I’m sure they are well hidden but I know I can find them. These house devices have been refilled on a regular basis since they were installed. Passing cars/trucks with an electric squirting device are being used, each squirting an out-gassing mixture as they pass by. These were almost constant for several years and are still coming. On the road perps will squirt “out gassing” mixtures from the backs or fronts of their cars/trucks at your car/truck. When they can get away with it perps even do this while walking past in order to gas the target. The chemicals will out-gas quickly or slowly depending on their intended use. The most dangerous assault is the direct assault from a car/truck that has an electrically powered high pressure squirting device behind the grill. These usually squirt pesticide that is intended to stay put and absorb through the skin. This attack can penetrate thick clothing and is usually done in a parking lot or anywhere they can get close to you in a car. Be aware of cars pausing near you or “aiming” at you in parking lots. Individual perps on foot will work their way behind you and squirt your lower back using various covert “rigs”. This is what I first caught one of them doing. The chemicals can be administered by “flipped” coworkers, neighbors, friends, family, local strangers and old or new professional (paid) perps. Neuro-interrupters have a cumulative effect. With successive poisonings there is a gradual decrease in cognitive functioning whidh is what is intended by the perps. I read an account of one victim who had been poisoned to the point that he could no longer speak. A perp will always wait close by to observe the condition of the victim after assaults. The protection against this is waterproof or impermeable clothing or any barrier that will block what is essentially a “high-tech squirt gun” If the victim fails to protect themselves, they will go down as a result of these assaults.

    Some psyhcotomimetic agents, usually LSD or similar will be applied to surfaces the victim will ordinarily touch, door handles, cabinet drawers, any place in their home, car and places at work. Daily vitamins, coffee, shampoo or anything used or consumed on a daily basis is a potential contamination target, especially single use items. In the home milk is often contaminated with OP pesticide. It is obvious if put in any clear liquid because the liquid becomes cloudy. Gloves and clothing might be turned inside out and “treated”. Time to change your cloths, don’t forget to shower. The perps will start slowly, only contaminating a single item or items they have control over so no evidence will remain in case law enforcement investigates. After they believe they have compromised the victims credibility they will become more active and aggressive with contamination and all other aspects of the “organized assault”.

    This a very lucrative criminal enterprise for many of the perps. People considered important to the success of a “hit” are offered large “bribes” to become a perp and start “working” the victim.

    Advanced communications such as the internet, cellphones and voice over internet protocol have accelerated the growth and networking of these organized criminal groups. Their day to day stalking activities depend on these same technologies plus gps and other hi-tech devices such as electronic spy and harassment equipment.

    Law enforcement agency’s are aware of these criminal groups and are gathering information on them.

    The following as well as this entire scam may take place over the course of many years.

    Co-workers, neighbors, friends, family, law enforcement and the general public are told planned, consistent lies about the victim/target. This will start with law enforcement long before the actual assaults begin. They do this to “set up” the target, hoping law enforcement will believe their lies and ignore the victim when they first report this crime. Perps may show a bogus “investigation” file or flash fake badges in the community as part of the scam. Perps might hire local lawyers and private investigators in a ruse to “legitimize” the scam. Later the perps will report crimes or trip alarms in the area so the police will have to drive by the target’s house. This is to make the target believe the police are part of the stalking. They will also pull fake fire alarms for the same purpose. While “working” this chemical attack, the perps perform “street theater” around the target. They hope the poisoned/drugged target will panic, then report and try to describe these bizarre “skits” to law enforcement. The goal is to create poison and drug induced psychotic episodes, paranoia, and actions that could (the perps will say) appear to be schizophrenic (only if you are not educated about schizophrenia would you believe this). The perps often launch large drug assaults against a target in public. If the target is effected enough they will report or encourage a bystander to report the target to law enforcement, saying the target is schizophrenic, crazy or psychotic. Some of the perps are bold enough to say the cops do what they have them do, indicating the perps are making “fools” of and are smarter than law enforcement and the targets. Many in law enforcement are aware of perp stalker tactics now and they would like nothing better than to bust this criminal enterprise or anyone in it.

    Some people in the community are tricked or coned into participating. They are told clever lies about the target They may even be deluded into thinking they are doing a “community service”. If they knew the truth of what they were involving themselves with they would not cooperate willingly. Others accept money or other forms of compensation. Many who know or are close to the target are forced to take part in this criminal scam, it’s essentially “the offer they can’t refuse”. Some are set up for various crimes and blackmailed, or blackmailed for any existing secrets they want to keep from co-workers, family, friends or the community at large. Those close to the target that resist are threatened and poisoned using these same methods until they obey. After they are “flipped” they are “coached” by these criminals in their “methods” of assault and supplied with “covert equipment” to topically spray or squirt these chemicals on or around the target or in their food or drink. This will be done at every opportunity at the target’s home (at night to wake you up) or away, on foot or in the car. Anywhere the target is or goes the perps will work together, using surveillance, advanced communications, stealth and simple diversionary tactics to draw the target into position for an assault that will not be detected by the general public.

    The perps have their own websites and “shills” to spread mis-information and dis-information on the internet. Some pose as support for victims trying to disrupt the actions of those who are really trying to help victims. There are perps posing as victims. These perps post intentionally “crazy sounding” accounts describing bogus “satellite attacks” or “advanced electronic weapons” and the ever popular “mind control” which they stretch way beyond anyone’s imagination. They want to frighten and confuse real victims with a mix of real and bogus information that they hope will be believed and repeated by victims. These “posers” also try to befriend real targets to gain information to launch yet another attack. They also will tell targets things like “get out and live your life”. What they really mean is “come out where we can get a clear shot at you”. I read one victims account that said they knew the man that started their stalking and that the man had a reward poster with the victim’s picture in a target on his office wall. I think the vic said the offer was $25,000. If you’re a target, that will make you think, won’t it. Some credible sounding things about this I read on the internet are gone now, disappeared. I like to think I just can’t find them, even though that probably isn’t the case.

    Cyberstalking, everybody knows what that is or can look it up. Just like all the things these guys do it’s pretty much “business as usual”. They take the information they have gathered about the target and present it in a way that is supposed to make the victim wonder “How did that stranger know that”? It’s the same “directed conversation” stuff they do to targets at stores and on the street. Well, the internet is a big place and you don’t have to go where people get their “jollies” jerking you around. As a matter of fact you don’t have to go there at all except maybe to do a little business now and then. And you don’t have to share your thoughts or business on the phone or out loud. You don’t have to provide them with information to use against you. When you have to speak around perps, use only the words you need. If you don’t talk unless needed the perps will just have to wonder what you are thinking.

    Common symptoms (use search engine) of the afore described poisons are attributed to the bogus “secret weapons”. “Electromagnetic weapons” of sorts are real but I have been unable to verify or find credible information on any existing “electromagnetic weapons” as they are described in this strange “internet chasm”. Also some of the symptoms described could be attributed to simple harassment electronics and some of the “itching” or “burning” powders that the perps sprinkle in target’s beds. They will contaminate your bed with various drugs in an attempt to make you “freak out” while trying to sleep. Keep the perps out of your home. The perps might be able to open any lock that uses a key. That leaves some type of combination only lock. If you can afford one or more, install them and learn how to change the combination. Disable all other entry lock key slots with water soluble wood glue, it can be removed later. Secure all windows. At least know if they were inside. Video cameras anywhere, outside or inside are a good thing to slow the perps down or keep them away if done correctly. Your own well hidden cameras or listening equipment inside might keep them out. The perps also use powders that will cause an asthma-like attack. Don’t panic, an inhaler will stop it or it will go away soon after you have gotten away from the source. The perps will use amplified high frequency (above human hearing, kind of like a high powered electronic dog whistle) transducers (speakers) to make your ears ring. These can be purchased but it’s fairly easy to build a big one with adjustable volume/range. I have seen this “ear ringing” as well as “body vibrations” associated with the non-existent “satellite weapon” attack. The “satellite to earthbound human attack” is still science fiction at this writing. And perps can purchase transducers of the type used in industrial sonic baths and mechanically fix them with screws to floor joists or wall studs underneath repaired drywall, completely hidden from view of normal inspection. The transducers will make your floors vibrate and probably create heat. They spend a lot of time hiding their stuff in houses or apartments so it won’t be found under simple visual inspection. If somebody really decides to start looking they *will* start finding these things. These tactics are part of the never ending “smoke and mirrors” routine. Apparently the perps get a “charge” out of inducing false perceptions.

    This “con-artist information attack” is intended to further psychologically terrify the victims hoping they will react as if “crazy”. After all, that is what it’s all about. If the victim fails to protect themselves they have already been poisoned and drugged to what the perps hope is an “excited” state of reduced cognitive ability. At this point in time the victim is usually attacked by the criminal’s very real covert weapon. This is most often done at night because it can be effective at waking you up and keeping you awake. It might also be hard to hide or get away with in the daytime because of sound, size, location, etc. This weapon was originally developed as a crowd control device by a company called Scientific Applications & Research Associates Inc. of Huntington Beach. It is an acoustic/sonic weapon that will make internal organs resonate. These effects have been described by victims of these assaults. The weapon I have seen in video demonstration is based on a combustion chamber that releases multiple ignited fuel charges through a wave guide to produce directional “very low frequency” (below human hearing) waves. These waves at the time were hard to control over distance as a beam but as used it probably doesn’t matter that much. This would most likely be used on a detached house. There are electrical versions of these weapons that use transducers that could be used from shorter ranges such as adjacent apartments in an apartment building. The electrical versions I read about required a very large amount power, were large and only managed a short pluse before needing recharging. These weapons could be greatly improved by now as far as size and power are concerned. The fuel combustion type I saw could be carried by one man. These weapons have undergone some military testing and are not really a secret, but I haven’t been able to find current up to date information (for an old 1997 story, search – U.S.News Wonder Weapons by Douglas Pasternak).

    Almost all victims are aware their phone and computer are “tapped” or will be. Information is gathered from every possible source in order to “custom tailor” the many various assaults and “street theater” to the individual. This surveillance information is used and intended to give the target the impression of an “all knowing”, “Orwellian” or “big brother” type of situation.

    Some are not aware that using a “hard wire tap” (cutting the wire and inserting a computer interface) that the perps can use computer software to digitally edit your call on the fly. They try to illicit angry responses from victims through constant harassing phone calls or even harassing in public. They digitally record these and clean them up for later use. Then when you call someone, usually a service that records calls like a telephone company or maybe even 911, they will cut you off after a completed sentence and seamlessly insert an out of context angry, ranting remark you justifiably made at another place and time. The more “crazy” it sounds the better. I can just imagine how they laugh after one of these edits. They can also use this method to create false recorded conversations to turn people you know or others against you. Imagine they record a public conversation at a store checkout counter and someone asks about a person you know. You say only good things about this person. Later in another conversation they ask you about Osama Bin Laden and you say everything but good things. The perps simply switch a few sentences around and clean it up some. They have what they want and it is much easier than altering a photograph using “photoshop” and almost impossible to detect.

    Let’s talk about “covert” (as if anything is not covert) cameras in or around your home. I have gathered information that indicates that live video of targets in their homes or while being stalked might be “entertainment” content for an internet website or sites run by the perps. What would really be bizarre is if some people were paying to view this stuff. It is at least viewed constantly by your local perp. You might even be appearing in “The Best of (insert your perp given TI name here)” video of the week. Your pictures and “perp created profile” are possibly on a website for all “perp-ville” to view. Manufactured fictitious information disseminated to all who have the perp web address or it could be passed out in “hard copy”.

    Audio bugging? You bet, they’ll do it if they can and they can. And just a note here, hiring somebody to do a “bug scan” is useless. It’s a highly specialized field that takes an experienced expert and any of them worth anything will tell you it has to be done completely covertly because good bugs can just be turned off while a scan is in progress. I’m sure the perps “just might” know the guy is coming because they already have *you* under surveillance. If you used your phone for contact that is a fore gone conclusion. If the bug is in an adjacent apartment, of course they will just turn it off. And if it is a hardwired bug there won’t be a signal to pick up anyway. If the perps can’t get inside to “bug” your home they might use laser to window, a parabolic or shotgun mic. You won’t catch them doing any of those, it’s not impossible to catch them, just highly improbable. One thing about this scam is that they need to hear your business to work the scam “by the book”. They can’t do any “directed conversations” anywhere without this information and it’s harder to set up “mobbing” and coordinate “moving surveillance” when they have to guess where you are going. Outside anybody can pick up voice easily from a safe distance using a parabolic or shotgun mic. The conclusion is it’s ok to look every now and then for covert cameras or bugs yourself after a little schooling on the subject, but don’t expect to find anything because you probably won’t. And don’t worry about it, just go about your business. You can figure out If perps are repeating things you said over the phone or something you said out loud in your house or apartment. Where did you say what they repeated? You have control over what you say and where you say it.

    Don’t forget about call re-direction on landlines and cell phones. Know who you are talking to. Do you think you called and talked to someone in law enforcement? Maybe you did, maybe you didn’t. Redirecting calls you try to make to law enforcement is something the perps do. They will pretend to be a law enforcement officer and tell you there is nothing that they can do to help. And they will make suggestive remarks about your sanity or reputation. They may refer you to another bogus “officer” to “work” you again. Always get the name and badge number of officers you speak with over the phone. Always identify/verify anyone you speak with over the phone. If you suspect your phone is tapped/intercepted/redirected, and if you are being “gangstalked” it will be, don’t use it. You can use a random pay phone if you have to.

    All victims should report this as soon as they can do so in a reasonable manner. It will never be stopped if nobody ever reports it. When you report this crime, ALWAYS go in person with well planned information you have compiled including a journal, video, audio, perp names and anything else you can get. If you have been “gangstalked” for a long period of time and you don’t have any “evidence” of any kind, just what have you been doing all this time? Be organized and complete but brief. Don’t elaborate on unimportant every day details you cain’t prove anyway. Don’t go into “gaslighting” details, all the particulars are not important. You don’t have to file a complaint against anyone, you are only providing information about a crime. Don’t tell anyone you are going to do this. If the perps know, there may be a “parade” of them lining up to give you the “treatment” all the way there and even into the law enforcement building. Be prepared to do this at any time and when you think the time is right deviate from your normal routine and do it. You can even make practice runs to check logistics, such as where to park, where to go when inside the building, are there surveillance cameras (big plus) in the parking lot or building. Any test run will also test the Perps reaction. Going by there a few times to learn the area roads won’t be noticed by anyone but the perps.

    While at home you can leave the radio or other sounds going all the time to disrupt the perps probable recording activities on some levels. It’s very hard to separate the multiple sounds and I’m not sure that it would end up good enough for their purpose. The perps don’t have to get into your home to install a “hook switch” or “infinity device”. It’s a type of phone tap that after the phone is answered manually or by a machine, the switch on the microphone of the “tapped” phone is “hooked” and remains on after hanging up. It becomes an effective listening device that can easily pick up conversations in an average size room. This device can be installed anywhere on the phone line between your phone and the local central office. It would usually be fairly close to your home or in your apartment building. It can be called and activated for listening from any phone anywhere in the world. For some, I guess obvious reason, the perps like using these. They can be defeated after a call by unplugging the receiver, the phone or installing an off switch on the phone microphone. Secure phones that turn off the microphone automatically are available but are expensive considering what little is involved. The perps can also sign you up for gps tracking too, they only need a moment with your cellphone to enter a code and you will be just like “one of their children”, tracked everywhere you go with the phone on. They will use your email or their own to verify the gps account. If you haven’t already, don’t leave your cell phone anywhere unattended. If they get your number, which is easy, they will monitor and can redirect/edit your cell phone calls using what is known as a portable base station. Scanners are used too but are less effective and only for listening anyway. They have or can get all the latest electronics that can be had by anyone.

    Always use an ssh2 encrypted stateside vpn service for internet. Don’t use a server offshore that skirts the law, if a perp does something illegal you want them to be caught. If you can find a vpn anywhere that is or is said to be a government “honey pot” for cybercrooks, that is definitely the one you want to use. These perps will work to shut down servers using their bot-nets, if only temporarily. And be aware that even after a clean reload/install of your OS they will try to get the latest trojan, key logger or virus to you in an email attachment from a formerly trusted source. Sadly it might be that cute e-card from a family member or friend. If they have the run of your home it only takes a minute to load “spy” software using a CD or USB memory drive. If you can’t keep them out of you home, back up your data, reload the OS and lock the drives down so they won’t boot on start up. Keep your OS “locked down” or “hardened” against all known attack methods too.

    The real bottom line on any communication service is as long as it runs through a wire/cable/fiber that is accessible to the perps, they can get on it. If they’ve “got your number” common cell phones are not much better as far as interception/manipulation is concerned.

    This article is older but is still interesting.

    Tapping Computer Data Is Easy


    These organized criminal groups have an appointed leader(s) that control(s) everything they do. They operate much like a computer bot-net receiving orders, tracking the target and dispatching a stream of perps. Take appropriate measures to protect yourself from their assaults and stay safe. Be aware of your surroundings and don’t respond to “baiting” tactics.

    What I’ve described is just part of what these criminals do, and if you are not a victim you are probably saying to yourself, “I just can’t believe a large group of criminals are getting away with crimes like that”. The reason they are getting away with it is because this large group of criminals literally “hijack” the community using the methods described above. It took stalking of well known celebrities and a death before anyone started taking effective action against stalking. Many people know this is very real and I know it is being investigated. There are many laws that can easily be applied to these crimes but no specific laws. A task force is usually appointed to tackle tough crimes, that may be what is needed to address this.

    You have permission to repost or reprint any part or all of this information
    Above taken from post on http://www.gangstalkiingworld.com

    minigh dimol: author of dana Point Harbor AA Venue of Violence


    Advanced communications such as the internet, cellphones and voice over internet protocol have accelerated the growth and networking of these organized criminal groups. Their day to day stalking activities depend on these same technologies plus gps and other hi-tech devices such as electronic spy and harassment equipment.

    Law enforcement agency’s are aware of these criminal groups and are gathering information on them.

    I have not read about a “targeted individual” that would have believed this could happen to anyone, had they not become a victim themselves. These criminal stalking groups go to extreme lengths to cover every aspect of their “covert” operations. They try to have a plausible explanation for everything. The crimes they commit are well planned and easy to do but easily deniable.

  3. Lindsay Baldwin said,


    I am a T.I. and have been for a long time now (I suspect since 1996/97). I too endured blatant psychological abuse in AA meetings, in Houston, Texas. Messed up part is that I was not even court mandated to go to these asinine 12 step meetings, where they attempt to dehumanize you and destroy your reputaion

    I have never been so humiliated, hurt, set up, and blatantly harassed publically by total strangers in my life. This happened to me from April 2006 until around July 2006. I was brainwashed and manipualted by them, and was told I would be a sinner if I quit going to these meetings. These people are evil. As far as AA meetings being “anonymous?” Wow. That is the biggest bunch of B.S. I have ever heard.


    Lindsay Griffith Baldwin

    • Jeff Weiss said,

      My name is Jeff, I too was harassed and gang stalked while attending an AA group in the Bronx, NY this is my email jeff10552@yahoo.com
      Would love to discuss this with you…

      • Fran said,

        I’d like to know more about your experience.
        I’m researching or had been w so much information relating to these type of stories and dealt w worse beyond.
        W no reason..

      • Fran said,

        I too had an unbelievable experience in Putnam county groups few and not Westchester just members within meetings lying to other few normal people in them.
        I have discovered the source of much of these crazy members associates which adds their access to others business including jobs and very detailed information which will show their actions and the type of people they are dealing with which adds all ability into others business..

  4. anonymous said,

    Now the table is talking! Yo, gas slinging Chinese mercenaries, recovering alcoholics, teams of psychiatrists, expats, all in some evil gang game.

    Gang stalking according to some reports that I have read is about drugging. Is that what goes on at AA meetings?

    I am confused, and the more I read these stories, the more I become confused. I may become so confused that I will have delusions, and beginning to think that people are ‘gang stalking’ me.

    I must add this interesting point that I found on gangstalking world. that seems authored by the some minigh mouse. In China this minigh was gang stalked for
    writing some stuff that some chinese people didn’t like. China is not a democracy. Maybe this crap did happen. Or maybe he just got worried that it would happen, and got paranoid.
    You can see it here

  5. Thoughts, rumagings, and ruminations said,

    […] Dana Point Harbor AA Hardcore Meeting, Dana Point, California […]

  6. Gang stalking & Mind Control « Thoughts, Rumagings, and Ruminations. said,

    […] Dana Point Harbor AA Hardcore Meeting, Dana Point, California […]

  7. Robert said,

    I had the same bad experiences with AA and alcohol and substance abuse therapy after being stopped and charged with dui in the past. I was forced into these programs and the only thing I had been taking at the time was a prescribed medicine. The people in the AA groups are noting but bad news, and it doesn’t matter if they are criminals or not, the only thing that constitutes a criminal is a murderer,rapist,thief or child molester. NOT someone who has a mental health issue and self medicates, The system is being used to further exploit and create worsened mental health conditions
    One guy from AA who worked for Medicaid decided I was going to be his next boyfriend/target. Whatever he said or did to everyone at every meeting from the time I said no to him caused literally hundreds of people to viscously turn on me.
    The therapists included, I wish I could name the by names here. I am keeping a list of those people who have been obvious perps so that one day I can produce them and hopefully those people will be brought to justice. I had the same sorts of drugging done to me that made me feel “unreal” or somehow disassociated from my body” or to have really bad anxiety and panic attacks to the point where I would have to get up and leave meetings. The people who I have been forced to trust have been abusive and have used psychological torture on me. I am going through this again after another false charge and will be going through more torture and I’m sure it will be much worse this time, this people are relentless and evil.

  8. Robert said,

    add addendum

    The drugging also came in the form of something being sprayed into an air conditioner vent that made me sick for a year, I had hallucinations, arrhythmia,headaches, nausea daily and had to vomit every time I ate. I have digestive problems, dizziness, I would fall over, get weak, still have constant fatigue, blurred disrupted vision. I am still sick and cant seem to get over this ” flu like illness. I also had a bout that lasted for about 3 weeks where I could not get out of bed, If I tried to stand I would fall down and pass out. I laid in bed with a burning temperature and my sheets and bedding had to be changed 4-5 times a day because I was sweating so heavily. I felt like there was a fire beneath me , or that I was literally on fire.
    I had horrible hallucinations and had V2K done to me to the point I felt like I was never going to come back to reality. I was LITERALLY being driven to insanity, and If it were not for being able to mentally pray to GOD through the whole ordeal I would not have made it.
    I was a very healthy male before this happened

    • angie said,

      thank god i found some other aa members receiving the same abuse . mine was in ny repeatins something i said earlier in the day igave her no reaction. take their photos outside a meeting i wasnt mandated eitiher nor am i a felon. use http://www.flckr.com gangstalking,aa harrassment gangs they used w.houston midnight group,second on second clean and dry where drug talk is permissable they use cocaine come to meetings. they have their blackberries ready and know which meeting u are going to besides following you on foot from your home in nyc which is easy other ppl in my area in east village saw it at grocery stores and city gyms. they spread the usual lies but also tell lu there is a guy who really likes u he is a movie star from france andeven used these fake paparazzi it was so dumb . 9or they try with male t.i s a girl is being held captive to do this to u and sheis from Italy or russia something . one is russian sounding is in the meetings in downtown ny and travels alot. she repeatedly tried to flirt w/us at second ave clean a nd dry men or women. noone likes them . they tried to plant somethingon me and luckily a spanish male said no she never sat in that chair i watched her i know where she sat and the asian american female ran out of the large church basement. you could hear them snorting coke in the apt on 7th st where i lived and were getting free rent and salaries . they are promised green cards too. many were from england new zealand east euro countries but sounded aussie. some were gay but not american not norm acting really stil active addicts. i thought aa was sacred unless there are very important ppl in teh rm that are real agents u are in trouble.

  9. Andrew T Cochran said,

    What are you idiots babbling about? The priciples applied in AA are nothing different than the principles applied in all religious organizations. This totally imagined ‘gang stalking’ and the moron whos obvious self-absorbed existence manifests in hallucinations of being followed and harrassed is probably suffering from alcohol/drug withdrawal. The fact of the matter is this…if you don’t with AA and the 12 steps you probably won’t get much out of it. There have been many other attempts at helping people stay sober or get off of drugs. None has lasted as long or has the numbers of successes as AA does. The problem you all seem to be having with AA is that it requires honesty. You are way more interested in spreading false information and lies than you are in helping others and yourselves acheive long-term sobriety.

    Furthermore, the independant ‘study’ has no credibilty and the author is a nobody in the medical community. As evidenced here by the posts I have read…any monkey can type trash into a post. I would strongly suggest that you were probably ‘insane’ before you attended AA, a pathological liar before you attended AA and will undoubtably remain so until your premature death from substance abuse.

    All of you conspiracy theorists need to get a grip and put down the crack pipe!! Just because you have no ability to get sober doesn’t mean AA doesn’t work. Willingness to try something different and honesty are the only requirements. I have attended 1000’s of meetings and never had any stalking or demeaning tactics used on me. AA is about love, compassion and respect for others with a combined recognition of the obvious fact…’you are not the most powerful thing on the planet’.

    I do not attend AA meetings any longer other than to check in once or twice a year. The reason is not an argument against AA but my lack of desire to be around people like yourselves…who need constant hand-holding and seek only what they can get out of other people. The things I have read here support my decision. Good luck with your alternative treatments. Look at how well it worked out for the lady who founded Moderation Management. She’s doing years in prison for her attempts to circumvent the truths that are the principles of AA and for killing people while driving drunk.

    • susan said,

      AA doesn’t work though. 5% success rate since conception. Those that brag about it’s merits would have quit anyway as there is 5% who have spontaneous remission. They are in it to continue Bill W.’s sick cult who wasn’t sober he took LSD. AA only gets in the way of much better methods of recovery being promoted like SMART recovery. AA finished 38th in a study of successful methods. I am so sick of people defending the horrible atrocities that take place in that cult!

  10. Daniel said,

    Personally, I’ve been to hundreds of AA meetings in multiple cities. I’ve never encountered anything like this. I started as a court ordered attendee also and found that I got far more help from AA than from the treatment program I was in.

    Unfortunately, by the time many people get to the point in their lives that AA has become mandatory, they also have developed some fairly serious mental problems. Including the paranoia. Most of these are born out of ego (being convinced that you are everyone’s sole focus, as if they have nothing better to do) – but certainly not all. And there are many people who started out with genuine mental problems and have used chemicals as an attempt at relief.

    The reason I’m skeptical about these reports are:

    1) a court can order you to go to AA, but they can’t order you what meetings to go to, and there are numerous meetings to choose from in most areas, even sparsely populated rural area; hence, if things were that bad, they could have always gone somewhere else.

    2) the people making of lists of people that they’re going to get back at somehow (in AA parlance, it’s called a resentment) is a pretty good indication that they needed to be in some kind of 12 step program and probably still do.

    3) one of the core traditions of AA is that the only requirement to attend a closed meeting is a desire to stop drinking. If things go well beyond that, there are multiple avenues of recourse to take with the areas intergroup, or escalate it higher if needed be. The fact that the original poster seemed quite able to tell their story on the internet, yet was apparently completely helpless to use that same tool to find a way to report the problem to the AA system, is quite telling.

    There are definitely people that are incapable of accepting the help available at AA. It requires that you be honest with yourself and willing to take suggestions. Hopefully those of you with sad stories to tell will someday get to that point. And there are certainly people that end up there that are convinced they don’t belong there. In that case, I can’t see the difficulty in spending an hour in x number of meetings saying “Hi. My names Joe. I’ll pass.”

    And, finally, yes – you are always going to find self righteous jerks in AA that are convinced that they need to run your life for you. Last I checked, you’ll find them wherever you look, whether it be in politics, work, hospitals, churches, new age groups, traffic, or your friendly HOA. These people are a part of life that you might as well get used to ignoring.

  11. Lynne said,

    This is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard…a court ordered AA participant thinking that people are stalking and gaslighting her? Can you say SELF-CENTERED? LOL! That’s all we AA people like to do, get together and discuss how we’re going to torture the newcomers!

    The fact of the matter is that the OP was probably hallucinating from chemical and/or alcohol withdrawal. It’s actual very common. My friend, now a year sober, thought that a man with a hooded sweatshirt raped her. She was sure of it. Never happened. She also thought there were monkeys in the hospital. It took her husband and three other people to assure her that there are no monkeys in a hospital.

    Unfortunately, by the time many come to the program, they are mentally ill. AA saved my life and millions of others. It is the best solution out there. But you have to want sobriety. It rarely works if it’s forced upon you. I hope anyone reading this and wondering about AA realizes this is just not the way it is.

    • susan said,

      That’s really amusing since Bill Wilson was always tripping on LSD and 13 stepping all the women not to mention stealing BB profits.You sound brain-washed with cult-speak. Good chance for relapse. They brain-wash you to think that too.

  12. Earl said,

    Everything I have read here at this web site is no doubt, true. I for one have experienced probably 80% of the dirty tricks invoked by AA, NA, MADD, Junior Sheriff’s deputies and the substance abuse officers’ who direct much of the daily script. The harassment activity is protected by the State District Court(s) for which you will not be able to access (directly).

    These orchestrated activities, are as old as substance abuse itself, or “PERCIEVED SUBSTANCE ABUSE”, by those who have been forced into a puritanical mode of lifestyle, accompanied by religion and constant “support group addition”.

    Oh, what a shame! They just cannot drink anymore, or even smoke joint, so then; why should anyone else, be allowed to continue with any recreational pleasure, while managing their life and succeeding along the way?

    There is no point in going to the police about the unlawful activities these elements invoke, including the privacy rights violations and wiretapping that would ultimately aid a lawsuit on your behalf.

    By all means, keep a log of any contact you have had with the police, including any photo’s, dates and time of incident and all financial losses associated with the invoked criminal, or unlawful action against you. Remember; these elements are protected to some degree, by the courts. Also, some of them may have anonymity and possibly legal or qualified immunity, under law such as a police officer, or a judge. This is what will make it difficult to get them prosecuted. The DA is going to be on their side. Be assured, the he can be beat! “The hunter can be consumed by the game”. Oh, what a meal!

    Many participants in the game include Christian Drug Abuse organizations that get paid, to try and manage your life remotely, after stealing your personal identification credentials, bank account statements and tax records. Additionally, they will eventually contact your employer, friends (so-called friends), co-workers and associates in an effort to humiliate you while maintaining complete anonymity. This is what I have always found truly amazing! The almighty dollar rules! These people will do anything to make an easy buck on someone else, because it’s easy money and feeds the ideology that blinds them, yet guides them.

    I can tell you that I have been VERY SUCCESSFUL in getting my retribution against a few of these elements that have inadvertently exposed themselves (e.g. jail time, careers destroyed, peer humiliation on a nationwide grand scale). No one is completely immune.

    A wise person once said: “DO NOTHING AND NOTHING WILL HAPPEN”.

    When it comes to pursing this kind of legal action, you will likely find that most lawyers are going to be viewing you as a fool, or someone that they can easily steal from.

    Do not hesitate to contact the ACLU (including State and Federal judges) and be sure to qualify your statements along the way. No one is going to listen to a whiner. You can file a motion yourself, as one representing yourself as counsel. This will force the system to expose and review your assertions; however, this will come with court costs and other possible expenses. You are going to need some cash. It is possible that you may eventually have to get an attorney, if there is going to be any hearings and subsequent trials, etc. If you are not up documenting and communicating effectively, then get some help.

    The really sad thing about much of this, is that I have come to enjoy jamming their asses up, whenever possible.

    If you are weak, they will consume you. Be strong and kick-ass!

    Good luck!

    • AA Member said,


      You really need help….rule one is you need to understand you’re just not that important!

      • Earl said,

        Oh but I am that important!

        When you challenge certain people that have the legal right of “qualified (or legal) immunity”, you become very important. When you go up against the state of Louisiana, or Texas; you better be ready for a fight. That’s the way it is when certain elements of power and influence are afraid to meet you in a court of law, where winners win and losers burn. They will lean on you until you can get them in court.

        Like a former assistant DA once told me… “They always get their man”…The whole story is quite lengthy.

        Need help…? Not me, I’ve won several battles and there are more to come.

        AA is every bit as much a cult as the Jehovah Witness, Pentacostal other “faith-based, screwball elements that back their buses up to the rehab facilites.

      • Earl said,

        Rule one? I am not bound to any rules, apparently you are. I’m not powerless and we are NOT all alike.

        You can’t even venture out to the world press (the free world press) for a few moments without taking the confines of your inflexible belief system with you.

      • massive attack said,

        Earl- Right on!

        You are not alone. Thousands have left.Have you posted on http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com look for the thread WHI I LEFT AA.

    • susan said,

      Good for You!!! They are like a bunch of cowardly rats huddling in there dark little rooms together thinking up mischief

  13. criscocorner said,

    People complain about AA all of the time. Yet, I have seen nobody, I mean nobody bring an alternative to AA in this county. None.

    People complaint and yet I see nobody wants to bring a SMART Recovery or Lifering into the county. I am sure you could have at least 2-3 meetings of that per week down here.

    If you want an alternative it takes WORK. Sitting your lazy ASS does not bring recovery. It take lots of hard work and time to bring the group into the county.

    It seems that I get this task. But, see I know it takes it work, that I have to minimum amount of soberity time (a year), and I have worked the steps than I am ready to do this

    Everybody wins if we have alternative. AA members can get some CBT thearpy without paying for expensive thearpy (who has money when we are in a recession) and other people who want recovery who might not benefit from a 12-step program has some other place to go

    • susan said,

      Why would the rehab industry want to get rid of 12 step programs. That unsuccessful revolving door brings in billions in insurance dollars

  14. jane doe said,

    this is total bullshit. south coast recovery is an amazing program. you obviously need extensive psychological evaluation and counseling, if not total institutionalization.

    i cannot say enough good things about the staff and program through south coast recovery.

  15. Earl said,

    For a number of years, [my wife] Lois and I have been aggressive critics of Alcoholics Anonymous and its recovery group movement because we believe strongly that AA is a primary cause of mass addiction in America. We know that hearing open criticism of the 12-step program is enormously helpful to people who have struggled in recovery group bondage, and we also believe that the recovery group movement is harmful to American society.

    It is understandable that we have gained quite a reputation for AA-bashing. Many perceive Lois as a mild-mannered, cheerful person who is much more reserved about attacking the addiction system, and that I am a grumpy old meanie with an ax to grind. Personalities aside, we are equally devoted to the destruction of Alcoholics Anonymous, the recovery group movement it has spawned, and its business arm, the addiction treatment industry.

    Oddly, we have not, until now, taken a public position on the much-asked question. In spite of our outspokenness, we avoided the “C”-word, i.e., “cult.” It has seemed needlessly inflammatory to say that Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult — until now.

    Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure? is the title of a book by Chaz Bufe which examines the history, development and current practices of AA with that question in mind. Bufe applies seventeen criteria commonly used to define a cult from an academic viewpoint, but he equivocates, noting that AA does engage in some, but not all, typical cult practices. He concludes that AA is cultish in some ways but does not truly deserve the label, cult.

    Academic inquiry into the possible cult identity of Alcoholics Anonymous is just that — academic. Therein lies a chief weakness of the Bufe book. For decades, millions of people have suspected, believed, or known that Alcoholics Anonymous is religious. Anyone can see that it is, yet an entire nation accepted its sophomoric disclaimer, “Not religious, just spiritual.” Recently, however, federal courts have asserted, “AA is unequivocally religious.” They only looked at AA’s doctrinal literature, and unhesitatingly declared what is obvious to anyone. No academicians determined that AA was religious; no academicians are going to divert the river of public cash away from addiction treatment into worthy projects. No academicians will steer the nation away from its unholy union with AA, nor will academicians solve the crisis of runaway, mass addiction.

    For the record, here is our position: Of course AA is a cult! AA is not only a religious cult, it is a radical cult, an evil cult, a widespread cult, and a dangerous cult. AA has become an engine of social decay posing as a noble, altruistic fellowship. Its perverse philosophy of sin-disease and deliverance by faith in a heterogeneous deity contradicts the fundamental values of a free society, but is uniquely appealing to people addicted to substance-pleasure. AA is a cancer on the soul of the nation, producing no pain to the populace as it eats away at the foundation of society. Its victims are its members who become grateful to their captors. AA is causing the problem is says it helps. Its 12-step program suggests nothing on how to quit an addiction except to stop trying, and its members love the cult more than any newcomer. Each cult member shares a vision of a better world resulting from propagating the steps — not from the effects of abstinence upon society. The AA cult has infiltrated our federal and state bureaucracies and now nests in every social institution, setting policies that funnel new members into its craw. It expands for its own sake, and cannot change from within. Therefore, it must be destroyed by forthright public education and expose.

    Lois and I rarely tell callers that AA is a cult; they tell us that it is. We look through a window into the soul of America, a window that is not available to others. At the national office, telephone calls are continuous every day, many from callers who have been trying to get through for days. It appears that our phone lines are two or three deep with callers at any given time, although we cannot determine how many are attempting to ring in at any moment. The calls are primarily from readers of Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction, calling to say thanks for making the vital information on planned abstinence available to them. For the most part, they are recovered as a result of reading about AVRT [Addictive Voice Recognition Technique], after which they pop out of the trance induced by 12-step and psychological recovery groups.

    Here are some telephone snippets from callers all over:

    “I knew from the start there was something creepy about those people.” “They aren’t of this world; they’re way out there.” “I kind of got a shiver during one meeting when they were putting one guy down for arguing against the powerless concept.” “When they said my family also was diseased, I knew something was wrong.” “When they started this thing about anything being my Higher Power, it felt wrong, like it was going against something very important inside of me.” “After I stopped going to meetings, no one I knew from the groups would have anything to do with me, even though I wasn’t drinking.” “My brother quit drinking by going to AA, but he’s become so weird. I hardly know him any more, and almost miss the way he was when he was drinking. At least he was sincere, and could talk about something besides himself.” “Our son went to a treatment specialist for drug addiction, and now he says we are satanic child molesters.” “I’ve been telling my husband that the meetings aren’t helping, that he now calls his binges relapses and feels less guilty afterward. He admits he is drinking more and more often, but says relapse is a normal part of recovery. When he goes to meetings after a relapse, though, he feels ashamed and depressed.” “A year after I quit drinking, my wife went to Al-Anon with a friend. Now she won’t communicate with me unless I go to AA.” “The counselors at the treatment center were poorly-educated and acted like robots reciting every word.” “I heard one man say, ‘I pray to God every day that I never get the idea that I can run my own life.’ When I heard this, I felt sick inside because I felt unable to leave the group.”

    These comments, and the sometimes lengthy stories they tell us, are convincing anecdotal evidence that Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult. AA exudes cultism. It looks like a cult, acts like a cult, and sounds like a cult. It is a cult that has risen meteorically from its origins as a splinter from yet another radical cult, the Oxford Group. They found dark niches in society — our jails, hospitals, and dead-end missions — to pronounce the drunk diseased and beyond the expectation to quit drinking or using. They invented the malleable Higher Power, the alcoholics’ deity-of-convenience, to sanction them and guide them along the cult’s thin ledge of tentative sobriety, and they are directed to constantly seek new members to justify their own cult affiliation.

    AA is not a cult because it meets certain objective criteria established by academics; it is a cult because it appears to be one. Social and behavioral scientists do not often make new discoveries, they typically exploit discoveries by quantifying, describing, referencing, and analyzing discoveries made by common people. They know little of the real phenomena about which they expound, each building upon the ignorance of their esteemed colleagues. AA has thrived on account of everyone’s hesitancy to say what it is that they see, i.e., the Emperor’s New Words. Therefore, it is time to call AA a cult, and wait for the academicians to catch up.

    To help them, I will apply the seventeen academic criteria of cultism chosen by Bufe, and reach a clear, unequivocal conclusion based on the daily experience of the national office of Rational Recovery:

    1. Religious Orientation, Supernatural Beliefs

    As predicted in [my 1980s book] The Small Book, the federal courts now refer to AA doctrinal literature, the steps themselves, as “Exhibit A” showing that AA is “unequivocally religious.” AA is intensely religious; what religion would call for 90 meetings in 90 days? What’s going on here? “The Big Book” [AA’s text Alcoholics Anonymous] is regarded as divinely revealed, sacred scripture within the step-cult; all disagreements are settled by citing passages from it. Gaetano Salomone’s extensive, ongoing analysis in JRR [The Journal of Rational Recovery] shows the purely religious identity and origins of AA. One of his unique contributions is his comparison of the surface structure and the deep structure (what you see and what you get) of the 12-step religious conversion program.

    Families split apart based on AA membership, just as religious conflict often disrupts family ties. At least one Methodist church has gone belly-up to “those people who meet in the basement,” who arose to conduct Sunday services with a teddy bear affixed over the altar where the image of Christ had been. The Church of Serenity, as they called themselves, worship using a special Bible written for alcoholics.

    [A woman] called two days after reading The New Cure, excited that she would never return to AA, of which she said, “Now I know why I always felt uncomfortable at the meetings. They say that the step program is not religious, but spiritual, but they place no value on religious worship whatsoever. They claim to respect all religions, but believe that no religion is adequate to solve problems of alcohol or drug addiction. To me, this means that AA believes itself to be superior to Christianity when addictive ‘disease’ exists within the family. They diagnosed my entire family as codependents or enablers who must enter their plan of salvation, as if they were sick. This was extremely disruptive, but I continued meetings and gradually replaced church connections with the recovery fellowship. Although they claim there is no conflict between churches and the program, in reality it is impossible to maintain both. From AA, I learned to look at God differently from the teachings of my church. After attending step meetings, I was spiritually self-conscious while worshiping at my church, because my perception of Jesus Christ in church was radically different from the Higher Power I was, in effect, worshiping at recovery meetings. I could not express this problem at meetings or at church, but Rational Recovery has reunited me with my religion by showing that drinking is not a disease; it is sin, and AVRT is the nuts and bolts of Christian repentance.”

    2. Irrationality, Rigidity, Anti-Intellectualism

    To AA believers, AA doctrine must be correct, as it is written. No one may speak of the incoherence of AA doctrine, and group interaction is designed to prevent or contain skepticism. “Your best thinking got you here.” “There’s no one too dumb to get this program, but many are too intelligent.” “Expect a miracle.”

    3. A Charismatic Leader

    Few would disagree that [AA co-founder] Bill W. has become a folk saint, revered and idolized by the 12-step community. His home has become a shrine, and his personal memorabilia have become sacred artifacts. He is regarded by some as the reincarnation of Christ, guiding the world into the Age of Sobriety, a millennium comparable to the Kingdom of God spoken of in the Bible. AA lifers trace their lineage back to Bill W. through a genealogy of sponsors, and speak with great pride to say, “Bill W. was my sponsor’s great-gransponsor.” Core members of AA are referred to as “Trusted Servants,” despite disclaimers that AA has no leaders. This image-making label endows such individuals with enormous moral authority, for they are, in fact, representing AA’s lineage to Bill W. and ultimately to the Loving God AA obediently serves.

    4. A Hierarchical, Authoritarian Structure

    While AA appears to the casual observer as a nonprofit corporation that sponsors autonomous, community-level cell groups, it has evolved far beyond that level of organization. Its members, shielded by anonymity and presenting themselves as concerned addictions experts, have infiltrated federal and state bureaucracies, where they manipulate social policies and funding patterns affecting America’s social service system. Hundreds of nonprofit organizations exist purely for the purpose disseminating disease-treatment propaganda and networking within communities to create political support for the 12-step agendas described in AA doctrinal literature. Now in possession of the American social service system, including the prisons and courts, the professional disciplinary and licensing boards, the Medicaid and social welfare programs, and the military health care system, AA can be seen as a powerful hierarchy of professional AA’ers employed in positions of social responsibility. AA is a cult which has spread into a bureaucracy, which I call a “cultocracy,” for the lack of a standard word to describe this anomaly. The funding for the AA cultocracy is not from the free-will donations of grateful alcoholics, but taken from each taxpayer by the force of national tax laws. The AA cultocracy enlarges AA’s membership by using the authority of social institutions to force vulnerable people into their recovery groups, where they are indoctrinated under conditions that should interest Amnesty International. The penalty for resisting AA participation may be imprisonment, death from the lack of organ transplant, imprisonment as in parole and early-release policies, loss of social welfare and health care benefits, loss of child custody as in domestic court cases, loss of livelihood as in impaired professional programs, and loss of employment as in employment assistance programs.

    It has been known for a long time that persons who test high on authoritarianism relate best to the rigors of the 12-step program and are more likely to become devoted, long-term members. The sponsor system assures social stratification, self-debasement, and gratification of the need for control over others. Beyond this, members achieve status and credibility based on time since last drink, so that someone with five years of sobriety might feel diminished in the presence of someone a decade sober. The result is a core membership of “true believers” whose identities are at one with AA.

    5. Submission of the Individual to the “Will of God”

    Quitting drinking is not nearly enough to satisfy the demands of the step program. One must accept the god of AA, the Higher Power, as one’s personal savior. Nearly all cults have God-control at the core. Jim Jones, David Koresh, and lately the HeavensGate cult are typical of other cults that have taken what they liked from legitimate religions and left the rest. Cults are usually Godly fellowships interpreting the word of God in a unique fashion, always undermining critical thought and making their members progressively more submissive to the will of God. AA’s emphasis on God-control is total, as one AA’er pathetically demonstrated during a call to RR. He asked, “Does RR think I can lead my life independently?” The answer was, “Yes, if that is want you want.” He said, “Since learning about RR, I pray for only one thing, that I never get that idea in my head. If that ever happens, I’m finished.”

    6. Dogmatism, the Ultimate Truth

    Reading AA’s central document, “The Big Book,” will show beyond any doubt that AA, despite some polite disclaimers, claims to have the ultimate truth. Anyone who has attempted to argue against AA doctrine during meetings will quickly find out that they are wrong, that the Steps are absolutely true, and to hold opposing beliefs is tantamount to a death sentence. [One person] called to say, “As soon as I told the group I was reading the new RR book, they started rejecting me like I had the plague. It was as if I had betrayed everyone present, or carried the seeds of their destruction.”

    7. Separatism

    No cult has succeeded in stigmatizing its members to the extent AA has. Even the HeavensGate cult, requiring uniforms and castration, failed to gain the support of the scientific community to support its bizarre concept of a rescuing UFO hidden in the tail of comet Hale-Bopp. AA has hypothesized the existence of a sacred disease, and found substantial support. Neither Ti nor Do, the cult leaders, obtained the sanction of organized religion to support their conceptions of salvation and heaven. When the 39 cult members died of their own actions which were predicted by cult doctrine, they were not seen to be victims of a hypothetical disease, but to a large extent they were seen as victims of a dangerous cult.

    It isn’t much of a stretch to imagine a more highly developed and better organized HeavensGate cult, in which a good number of M.D.’s and psychologists had become devout members. (Heaven knows something more bizarre than that has happened in the “addictionology” field.)

    8. Exclusivity (The Only Path To Salvation)

    Throughout the AA scriptures, there appears to be no direct reference to an afterlife, but there is one higher state of being, akin to heaven or nirvana — serenity. Serenity is achieved by diligent step-study which leads to a spiritual awakening, an ineffable and divinely inspired religious conversion experience. Serenity is the state of personal salvation by faith, and is the highest aspiration within the world of the steps. From serenity comes all that is good, good works, good feelings, goodness itself. Serenity is simply divine, and towers above the religious experience of traditional, hierarchical religions. The general attitude of AA society to traditional religion is snobbish humility, once again reflecting the pervasive, inherent contradictions that permeate AA.

    9. Self-Absorption (Primary Focus Is the Cult Itself)

    AA lore is replete with injunctions to devote one’s life in every way to the cult itself. One may not take credit for abstinence or relief from despair; the only benefactor is AA or God, and the only proper attitude is gratitude. [The AA book] Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions sets forth Tradition One as, “Our common welfare should come first.” AA presents itself as necessary to life itself: “…without AA we will perish.” Any criticism of the Program or of AA is regarded as heresy that endangers the lives of AA’ers everywhere, and must be silenced by admonitions or mottos. Members dwell upon themselves endlessly, working steps on themselves, and attending [meetings] as part of methodical spiritual growth. Step meetings focus on philosophical minutia, and an endless stream of new books on step-recovery, many [published by] Hazelden, are found in bookstores for the struggling recovering alcoholics.

    10. Economic Exploitation

    It appears likely that AA has destroyed the economic foundations of more families than addiction itself has. The incestuous relationship of the recovery groups and the treatment centers, where the referral traffic sustains the interests of each, has run up bills that no person or family can pay. Treatment centers have materials for credit applications and mortgage arrangements to pay for the re-admissions of chronic relapsers. If the services were in any way effective, the cost would not be exploitive, but treatment centers are acutely aware that only about five percent of those who come through the turnstiles will remain abstinent for long. Repeat business is the best business in the addiction treatment industry, but claims of “success rates” of 60 to 70 percent are common by the treatment centers.

    AA itself has set a suggested limit on how much members can give at meetings (in 1990 it was $500 per year), but in the atmosphere of meetings this is akin to a pledge goal. In just one of AA’s many districts, the amount actually sent to AA, not just dropped in the basket, in 1989 was $11 million.

    The economic exploitation denied with, “No one makes a dime on AA.” Not so.

    11. Possessiveness (Go To Great Lengths to Retain Members)
    Acclaimed libertarian talk-show host, Gene Burns, noted during a program on Rational Recovery in 1990, “AA has a proprietary interest in every living person who drinks too much.” In our work since then, we have talked almost every day to people who say, “I finally quit because the groupers seemed to think they owned me.” “They kept calling between meetings, and kept telling me I would go crazy or die if I didn’t make more meetings.” “At the meetings, they made me feel naughty for missing meetings.” One man, depressed and frightened but apparently sober, said, “I need help. They’re coming for me.” Believing police or paramedics had been summoned, Lois asked, “Did you threaten yourself or someone else?” He said, “No, they’ve been looking for me. I’m at my sister’s house and they just called and they’re on their way over.” Lois asked, “Who are they?” He answered, “The AA people. They won’t leave me alone. They’re on the porch.” Lois told the caller he could send them away, but he said, “It’s no use. I can’t go against them when they are here,” and hung up.

    We receive many calls from people who have been securely abstinent for years, but are now required to enter treatment programs. This occurs with professional licensing programs, with drunk driver programs, and in child custody cases.

    It is commonplace for AA-dropouts to receive calls from AA members asking, “Haven’t seen you for a while. Are you okay?” These calls are not from concern or friendship, but only to manipulate people back into meeting attendance. When the dropout makes it clear that he or she will not be returning, there is no possibility that the grouper will continue to associate or call for other reasons.

    12. Mind Control Techniques; Intimidation

    While some cults jinx or curse departing members with divine or karmic punishments, AA promises refuseniks hell on earth, either from inevitable drinking or using, or from a malady called dry drunk. The dry drunk concept is one of the most sinister mind-traps ever devised to retain errant cult members. Knowing intimately how addicted people cannot imagine a satisfactory life without the substance, and understanding well the insatiable appetite to continue drinking or using, cult novices are told that quitting drinking or using is useless since addicts cannot be happy, cannot cope with normal stresses of life, or will simply self-destruct after prolonged suffering and deterioration.

    AA has a well-known reputation as “slogan therapy,” but all cults use repeated phrases as an indoctrination technique. Like all cults, each and every slogan or motto of AA is an inversion of the truth or a platitude to cover an atrocity. The meeting structure itself forbids two-way communications, allowing for one to “share” whatever, with only marginal or no commentary from the group. Approval and disapproval are communicated slyly with acerbic comments from groupers, or nonverbal gestures and cues.

    The fact that all newcomers suffer the same functional problem, i.e, ambivalence with repeated reversal of intent, makes them easy prey for seasoned old-timers who can anticipate addictive thought processes. Instead of freeing people from addiction by telling the simple truth they all must know, they exploit the weakness of newcomers to induct them into the cult. Each abstinent AA’er knows very well that drinking and using is a matter of free choice, and that self-recovery is not only possible, but commonplace. Acting out of loyalty and guilt, they repeat the official dogma, that AA is a lifeboat for all addicted people, and to leave the fold is tantamount to choosing death. So zealous has the recovery group movement become, that every single group insists, “Anything can be your Higher Power — a teacup, a doorknob, a stone.” In their zeal, all respect for common sense and self-determination is abandoned in favor of coercive logic approaching absolute mind-control. “At first you come because you have to come,” they say, “but later you come because you love to come.”

    No cult on record has achieved such sophisticated means of mind-control that the casual onlooker either doesn’t notice or doesn’t mind the coercion. This is accomplished primarily through the following means:

    A. Defining the addicted person as sick, incompetent, in denial, deserving of radical methods and forced humility, i.e., humiliation. Observers will perceive what is actually abuse as necessary and appropriate, as if watching a surgeon slice a person open.

    B. The confidence game. The use of legitimate authority symbols, e.g., doctors, psychologists, professional associations, etc., to support the use of the 12-step program. If the state licenses them, they must know something, and if they say it’s okay, then it’s okay.

    C. The big lie. Massive denials of reality, such as “AA lends its name to no outside organization,” while virtually all treatment programs are run by professional AA’ers who forcefully indoctrinate participants in the 12-step program. The use of mass media to repeat nonsensical phrases over and over, i.e., “addictive disease,” “treatment works,” “one-day-at-a-time,” “recovery is a process,” “in recovery,” “recovering,” “in denial,” “addiction treatment,” etc., to inure the public and prevent moral outrage over the actual content of American-style addiction recovery.

    D. Steptalk, that polished explanation steppers provide when questioned about their odd beliefs and suspicious proclivities. “It isn’t religious, it’s spiritual.” “No one makes money on AA. We are a fellowship of concerned people supported entirely by our own donations.” “Take what you like and leave the rest.” “The 12 steps,” upon which survival is said to depend, “are only suggestions.”

    E. Pathologizing inquiry, criticism, and dissent. The Program is divinely inspired, and may not be criticized. Persons who object to cult doctrine are ostracized, reprimanded, regarded as sick, diseased, in denial, in relapse, constitutionally incapable of honesty, or simply doomed. Critics of AA are always angry, in denial, paranoid, sick people. Skeptics and others who test the coherency of AA doctrine are advised, “Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth.”

    13. A Closed, All-Encompassing Environment (Physical)

    We hear daily from people telling about being detained in treatment centers, deprived of all reading materials except AA doctrinal literature, deprived of any contact with family or friends, and prohibited from using the telephone. When the facility is not locked, subjects are threatened with direct billing for services because insurance will not pay the front-loaded hospital bill if the patient leaves against medical advice. Moreover, resistance to treatment is recorded into medical records which are released in advance at the time of admission. The record becomes evidence for later repercussions in court and before professional boards. Family members are required to also submit to codepedency indoctrination as a condition of payment.

    Ninety meetings in ninety days, an industry standard, makes the cult an all-encompassing environment, allowing scant time for anything but cult participation. Although the subject may sleep and eat at home, the effect of daily cult participation results in social disorientation to the extent that subjects feel as if they are at meetings while in their homes. When this bizarre, coercive arrangement is not mandated by a court, it is reinforced by the group (its established members working in shifts, of course), which constantly remind subjects that if they relent in meeting attendance they will self-destruct.

    14. Deceptive Recruitment Techniques (Deception; Set Up “Fronts”)
    The fundamental deception of AA is that it is an organization devoted to helping people defeat addictions. AA is not about recovery, AA is about AA. The First Tradition, which values the welfare of the group over its totally dependent members, is a red flag that is carefully shielded from public scrutiny. The steps themselves deceive the observer, seeming to convey an antidote for the degeneracy of addicted people. Ominously, the steps contain not even a hint on how an individual might cease and desist from the use of alcohol or drugs, but only instruct the member to stop trying to quit and shift that responsibility onto the cult and its deity-of-convenience, any Higher Power of one’s conception. This amorphous Higher Power, although called God, is entirely unique to AA, as it is intended to metamorphose into an Alcoholic’s God that intervenes at the level of voluntary motor control. “At times, there is no human defense against the desire to drink,” they explain, “but your Higher Power will protect you. Let go and let God.” Submission to the will of the Alcoholic’s God is the benchmark of working a good program, and is the antithesis of free-will, self-determination, self-will, i.e., denial. Since members are a self-selected group in the long-term grip of pleasure, continued intermittent drinking or using is the actual group norm, even though the stated norm is complete abstinence. Drinking bouts are then integrated as “relapses,” “slips,” or innocent symptoms of the group disease. This seductive, deceptive arrangement allows members to continue drinking, which they are impassioned to do, while appearing to be committed to abstinence. Essentially, AA is a drug-cult which holds various substances to be “desecrating sacraments” which are necessary for eventual cleansing of the soul. It is clearly not an organization devoted to teaching people any means to end substance addictions.

    The “treatment intervention” is a surprise party set up to trap unsuspecting substance abusers at vulnerable moments. An emotional ambush, orchestrated by a professional AA’er, is planned ahead of time by inviting the subject’s significant others, including distant relatives, old friends, neighbors, family members, present and former bosses, and anyone else who would maximize the intended humiliation to the subject. Each is told how the subject has the dread disease of alcoholism and is “in denial” — penetrable only by total embarrassment and tough love. They have rehearsals, each person dredging up examples of the subject’s poor behavior or moral transgressions. Often, a van from the interventionist’s place of employment, a nearby treatment center, pulls up just as the meeting ends, and the subject is led sobbing to the vehicle. We are not aware of any person who has been helped by this intrusive, brutal practice, including those who later give rehearsed, glassy-eyed testimonials of being gratefully intervened alcoholics.

    We receive many calls from people who were deceived by addiction treatment centers as to the nature of the services provided. Many people who have had painful or disgusting experiences in AA ask specifically to have no further exposure to AA, and state they will not enter the facility if that is what is provided, some asking specifically for Rational Recovery. The admissions personnel, always AA members, lie straightforwardly, promising no AA, and then later explain that AA doesn’t lend its name to any organization, but that the only thing that works with addictions is the 12-step program. Some hospitals even state that they offer Rational Recovery, and the patient later finds that what is offered is some form of cognitive, feel-good therapy, which they say blends with their 12-step program. (These agencies, of course, receive standard cease and desist letters from RRS, Inc.)

    The endless inversions of truth, starting with the “spiritual-not-religious” deception, are a path of progressive self-betrayal culminating in collapse of critical judgment and surrender to the cult, i.e., “snapping.”

    15. Manipulation through Guilt

    The “intervention” is a graphic example of the AA cult’s use of emotional brutality to get new recruits, but every meeting of AA is a guilt manipulation. Most AA escapees we hear from tell of the intense guilt generated during meetings, particularly while working the steps involving moral inventories and making amends. One disturbing but frequent observation is that of callers who have spent many painful years, even decades, in the revolving door of relapse and keep-coming-back, and who have been greatly inspired by learning about AVRT. In spite of renewed hope for secure abstinence, and even a sense of complete recovery, they are loathe to criticize AA in any way, or even to admit that they were misled by the step doctrine. “As long as AA helps some people, it shouldn’t be bashed. There are different roads to recovery…” Many years ago, we recognized this aberrant defensiveness and included it under the list of signs of recovery group disorder, not unlike the classical nonchalance of cult members toward self-sacrifice.

    16. Millenarianism (The End Is Near)

    AA now has a faction which believes that Bill W. was Christ reincarnated, that the original Jesus was an alcoholic who authored the 12-steps, that the Last Supper was the first AA meeting, that Old Testament prophecies predict that AA will rise as the dominant world religion during our times, and that the Age of Sobriety, actually the prophesied Kingdom of God, will commence on the year 2000. The book Mark as Recovery Story, by William Mellon, dovetails AA with Christianity through linguistic feats and Biblical re-interpretation, drawing out shocking assertions about the character of Christ and the nature of salvation. Galilee, Mellon asserts, had a good number of 12-step groups started by Jesus when he fled there following his mock-crucifixion. Yes, this is bizarre and offensive, but there’s no business like cult business.

    17. Violence and Harassment

    If by violence we include intellectual violence, all cults are violent, and AA surpasses most of them. Denial-hazing, in which any suggestion of self-determination is made into a symptom of the group’s disease, is figuratively an intellectual “kneecap job,” in which the legs are shot out from under newcomers with the intention of crippling them for life. Interventions are emotionally violent, and the entire pattern of predicting death and destruction for program-resistant members is a form of violence. Court-mandated AA participation is inherently violent, since court orders are backed by guns.

    Here I must address the issue of character defects, the subject of much recovery group movement discussion. The 12 steps appear to be laced with something that makes people mean and arrogant. The more seriously people take them, the weirder they become, in comparison to their pre-cult personalities. They also appear more inclined to mistreat their fellow beings — all in the name of treatment or recovery, of course. One caller likened the AA cult indoctrination to vampirism, in which, once-bitten, one will go on to bite others.

    The tens of thousands of people who have called us in despair have been mistreated by members of AA — by fellow groupers, by sponsors, by step-oriented counselors and therapists, and by stepping judges and physicians. The abuses are surprisingly similar and few in type, the most common being the insistence that AA is the only possible remedy for addiction, leaving the subject depressed and hopeless. The use of death threats is universal within the recovery group movement, drawing on the tone and passages from “The Big Book” which predict death for nonbelievers and dropouts.

    The admonition, “If you don’t (whatever) you will drink,” is the foundation of the entire recovery group movement, and it is commonly understood that if you drink, you will end up “in jails, hospitals, and asylums.” While there may be some statistical support for this prediction, it is not on account of anyone’s failure to work the step program that one might drink. Indeed, it is far more likely that the prediction itself is more instrumental in a drinking outcome than not enough program compliance. The cruel irony is that when the prediction of drinking is accepted and acted upon, it appears to all that the drinking was the direct result of program noncompliance. Relapse is program compliance!

    Chemical dependency (CD) counseling is a professional guild created by AA in order for its members to practice stepcraft in public institutions and agencies. Few CD counselors dreamed of becoming counselors until they joined AA and saw the chance to work a Good Program and get paid for it, so it is understandable that as a group they are poorly educated and do not demonstrate the skill and poise of trained professionals. Their philosophical orientation, at sharp odds with all of the health and helping professions, defines their clients as fundamentally defective, lacking in sound judgment, and riddled with character defects that add up to sociopathy. They see their clients, whether on the street, in their offices, in prisons, or in their homes, as not deserving the same measure of dignity and trust that would be afforded others, and always in need of more treatment or AA meetings. They manage dependent caseloads of files that are never closed, but at some stage of the disease of addiction, and they spend inordinate amounts of time on psycho-social fishing expeditions, interviewing and compiling records and evidence “assessing” and proving hypothesized pathology. Their counseling skills do not exceed the limitations imposed by the 12-step program itself, so they are unable to form genuinely therapeutic relationships.

    • AA Member said,

      Earl….you are a complete idiot…sorry I guess that constitutes a resentment.

      • Earl said,

        Actually, I did not write the above; I posted it on this web site, because it was so eloquently written by someone who qualifies their statements vs. just blowing off steam with no firm direction. It was written by an individual who has a radio talk show in NYC. I will let him remain anonymous, but if you’re really curious…it should not take but a few minutes to search him out on the internet.

        Aside from that…the only people I ever hear speak of “resentments” are people who are a product of AA. For some strange reason you people are brainwashed into believing that resentments are an abnormality associated with you illness, or the illness that you have been led to accept. Resentments are perfectly normal. There are two basic types of resentment. One is the resentment we admit to and the other is the one we refuse to acknowledge.

        It appears that your resentment is one in which you refuse to accept what is probably true because you do not understand that everyone has NOT had the same experiences.

      • Earl said,

        That’s the best you can do? I guess that’s about par for someone who has probably been “bitch slapped” into the AA cult.

      • susan said,

        That is a resentment. You better make amends. Bill W.’s god won’t like it if you don’t

  16. gregory rager said,


    • Earl said,

      I hope your successful in your law suit…Dana Point and San Clemente are just typical. That’s the way it is everywhere and just about anywhere!

      Something happens to people when they surrender to these recovery cults…they become vindictive, and show their true character defects. They were badly defective long before they poured alcohol on their problem, or got into any drug to ease the pain of their cowardness in life.

      If you find a lawyer to take that case please let me know.


      • AA Member said,


        I love “absolutes” like everywhere and everybody…you have the audacity to refer to AA as a cult….that is simply so far from the truth.

        Perhaps you might lay off the ABSOLUT (i.e. vodka)….

      • susan said,

        that sounds vindictive. Are you projecting your character defect?

    • AA Member said,

      Grow up…dude living with mom and dad…now suing the people who are trying to help you? I hope they counter sue for frivolous litigation you sorry individual. Perhaps if Mommy and Daddy stopped enabling you; you might have a chance to grow up. You’re just looking for a “free ride under the guise of civil rights”. You are truly a jerk!

      • harrassedinroundlake said,

        You know what, some people help you but others harrass you. And if they are harrassing you they enlist the aid of other aa members who then follow their lead blindly in harrassing you.

        And nobody is enabling me.

  17. Earl said,

    Another “screwball” cult that is profiting from the government and being financed by the Paragon Casino of Marksville, LA is:

    Cutting Edge Community Mental Health Center Inc. Address: 452 East Chestnut
    Street Marksville, LA USA 71351

  18. gregory rager said,


    • Earl said,

      I can tell you that this activity is often mandated through a State Judicial District. I know for a fact that it is common in Louisiana, Texas, Georgia, California, Washington and many other states. If you smoked pot, drank beer and pissed off the wrong person…what happens is, someone will point the finger at you, as if you were an addict in need of rehab…”let the games begin”. They can and will destroy your reputation, your employment and your ability to make a living if you resist their efforts to try and break you. All this shit does is make me more determine…The shit that goes on and is too numerous to mention here. Wire-tapping is also very common. Be very careful in your communications. They thwarted my attempts many times to use an attorney. I contacted the ACLU and they suggested that I get an attorney…I did and they got to him by sugar-coating their bullshit lies and I had to fire him after paying that useless bastard (Attorney Chris Roy, of Marksville, LA).

      Under George W. Bush…as he stated “the addicted will join a faith-based group…etc…” which is much a part of the AA/NA cult. I am not sure if that has really been tested in court but it is a resource they use to out-number those on your side. Where I live, the addicted might me someone who just smokes a little pot once and a while. They lie and push ii to extremes.

      The idea is that they expect you to be weak and easily break down after stalking, dirty tricks, telling your employer, neighbors and others lies about you. Many people quickly and easily break down under emotional stress and follow the garden trail into rehab and some of the vindictive one’s become the staker, dirty trickster and cowardly bastard themselves thinking they are now on the right path.

      I got fed up with the repetitive bullshit of contacting the police about it so I ran a couple of the thugs off of my property with a gun. I fired a shot into a drainage ditch and they called the police and said that I tried to kill them. They charged me with felony agravated assult with a handgun (very serious in Louisiana). I went to court, represented myself and argued the charge down to a misdemeanor with a fine. Two years later, I went back into court, representated myself and filed a motion for expungement and a State Judege agreed with me and signed off on it. That was three years ago and today I still have issues in having to battle with the asshole everyday.

      In Louisiana; Rat #1 was former 12th Judicial District Assistant DA Thomas Papale (now deceased) and his brother Antonio Papale who is a practicing attorney in New Orleans and Baton Rouge and also a member of the Louisiana State and Federal Bar Association, and Dan MIchelle of Markville, LA a former candidate for mayer of this little shit town.

      The other rats are: David Thasher of Austin, Texas, Pat “Bozo” Boyle of Jefferson Parish, Louisiana and Scott “numba 1” of New Orleans, the Cutting Edge of Marksville, Louisiana.

      Also, keep in mind that among their allies there are likely employees of the department of corrections, and sheriff’s office employees.

      I’m not finished with those bastards…not by a long shot.

    • AA Member said,


      Oh please get over yourself…CAN YOU SAY SELF CENTERED…CAN YOU SAY ENTITLED?

    • harrassedinroundlake said,

      I need to sue or get legal assistance also. Please help by replying with info on how to do this and who to contact.

  19. AA Member said,

    I’m sorry, I don’t get it…being in AA is being a part of as opposed to apart from…some of the rants I read here tell me many of you have underlying causes for your alcoholism and/or addictions. This is my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours however, the facts are the fact and AA has saved millions of lives since it’s inception. The harassment some of you describe are so far from the truth it simply insane to even think there are hidden agendas other than a group of people who want to stay sober one day at a time. Of course, I suppose it’s not for everyone…but I would suggest you take your own “inventory” as opposed to AA’s.

    Good luck and I hope each of you find a way to a sober life.

    • Earl said,

      AA Member:

      Why do you assume that those who have commented here are alcoholics, or addicts? Are you saying that these people have taken the time to comment here at this website and they are lying about their experiences?

      I agree that AA has helped millions of people of have submitted to the culture, rules and AA doctrine, but there is a dark side of AA and that is perpetrated by some of the so-called addiction counselors. That is where the strange departure from the normal psychological mainstream has it’s roots. Fortunately, it does not exists in every single AA regional location, but it does it have a fairly significant global representation and that is what these people are talking about.

      If you want to stick your head in the sands of denial because you have not personally experienced any of this strange and sick behavior, then that’s fine, but don’t suggest that the people here have posted lies…

    • Fran said,

      I apologize i love many members in aa but
      Unfortunately much of these comments are more w truth then you’d like to believe.

      Many are such good kind and very fun funny nice people.
      However from a terrible experience unfortunately from some awful people
      I myself had an unbelievable unwell experience
      Mixed with such terrible things into even my friends outside of recovery who are more then happy to verify that

      I went and researched these type of terrible unfortunately unwell members to
      Show the need for these things to be removed from around my meetings
      As so many are also excellent so much so
      They agree with me as mine became quite a public occurrence as all my friends and family are social drinkers witj no alcoholics
      And we’re effected by members like this.

      As these members really lied and tried to stop me from making contacts in groups
      Unless they felt ok for me to know
      Lied to my wonderful sponsor.

      My care was thesw things were harming not only me but lots of members
      Who came to see them too..
      They hadn’t recognized themselves as
      Just some very underlying off people in my case.

      Minus them AA has msny kind funny nice people

      • Fran said,

        This bunch were dealing w some sort of religious sect unknowingly to other members. Followed me from meeting to meeting.
        Off an on since 2003 and due to again the many i came to enjoy and care about
        I made quite a stink as so many were
        Being hurt by these type of things

        Much read being very true including lying to other regular members.

        And to outside friends and family
        W many of own in positions outside
        Dealing w many valuable roles and titles.

        My reason for sharing is to note this unwell bunch within a circle within meetings
        Who really take away from the akready care and great fun and help
        Already there.

  20. The Real Thruth said,

    Everyone who is or even isnt a Target of Gangstalking NEEDS to Read the below pasted article and to especially notice the Comments posted under teh article and you will literally see the factual realitie of what AA/NA actually is–A Cult -which runs and remains hidden by the people who are in direct control of the Conscious Contact meeeting-Theri Masonic and Daughters of teh Eastern Star-and if you read the comments under and about learning Disabled Woman Tortured in Dearborn Mi-you will come to see that AA/NA is nothing but a arena that eventually pipelines Sponer’ees’into Human Traffciking /Drug and Prostitution Rings-And understand this and be clear Research the following Statemenet as well its all over teh interenet that masons hide their thruth’s in normal languge “But its actually the Character behind what they say even though they present it to have a normally appearing reason-Ive done over 27 years of research into their behaviors-Now look at what I typed above “That they have Conscious Contact meeting-and that Masons always Always hide their thruths in normally appearing statemenets and expressions-because they already have you confused it’s a Self Help group-Conscious Contact to them Hidden in their true Motives means Remote Neural Monitoring-to the selcted few that are picked to meet with each other to discuss who when and how theri goin to carale the new Comer into Human Trafficking and Prostitution and this includes Men Old and young and even the sons and wives and daughters of the target over time if they can manage it-their connected to Extreme organized syndacted crime..I have discovered over time they are actually connected to the ones that will get a person addicted to drugs and connected to the same ones that originally used Remote Neural Monitoring to literally stimulate thoughts to use even using Voice Morphing of your own Voice to do it-John Hall sattilite Terrorism even mentioned it His Videos are found online John Hall A New Breed sattalite Terrorism-in his Videos he lietrally mentions taht they can not only stimulate Neural Networks to get you to do just about anything but that they can also put thoughts into your head thru voice Morphing and you belive its you own voice and they do do this usually when your either really tired Because tehy do keep you up-or when your extremeley duressed-and the thought they transmitt you belive are your own thoughts your having in relation to wanting to have a drink to escape-“see their syndacted to bartenders barowners their syndacted within the buisness and service community and in the Crimminal Justice system their white and Blue Collar Workers their invested in Group and recovery homes and their only concerning about one thing and one thing only MONEY andvthey will exploit a Person from every single angle they can LITERALLY LITERALY for every single pennie they can make off of teh explotation-which includes your body-I suggest you thourghley reveiw Remote Neral Monitoring/Influenicing in its entirerty and begin to see the Thruth of the whole and only reason AA/NA exsists remeber I have 27 years experience with knowing these people personnally and knowing everything about Gangstalking how they operate what they use and WHY-They sell Human Being into Human Traffcking Human Servitude Prostitution Rings and Explotation of every kind imaginable including exploiting a targets assests as well.-Read the below pasted article teh Comments READ THEM Carefully and LEARN -and understand the Courts are involved in these Crimminal activities because this Generates money for all kinds of illegal operations are Government is involved in that they cannot get from Congress think about it were else whould they get it then right in your own backyard.


    Above is a Article Concerning a Wayne County MI Prosecutor -The prosecutor, Karen Plants-who worker directley for and under Ms Worthy who is teh Wayne County prosecutor for all of Wayne Mi-Fellow American Citizens

    • Fran said,

      Id like to know more about why you say this
      I have a great deal of research regarding this type of story
      And want it noted many AA are very good and sincerely kind with often littlr awareness about many experiences
      My experience shows this w much fact
      Along w much fact to msny kind religious sect kinds i met unseen by these other
      Well quite crazy members who truly lost minds
      Without the concept of actions or even
      Recognized the reality..
      Different story but id love to know more about and can share a very long 18 yr very detailed occurrence through thid program.
      W much referencing material..

    • susan said,

      Totally believe this. AA roots go back to Aleister Crowley (the wickedess man in the world) He would have started the AA organization but was a known Satan worshipper. He even had the exact same AA symbol for his thelema religion. It is a witchcraft symbol. The triangle within a circle. It has been used by the craft for centuries.

  21. An unsafe haven: Today’s Alcoholic Anonymous and 12 step groups | Orange Juice said,

    • a 'n a said,

      If somone tells me they are in a ‘n a I make no comments and immediately walk away. They understand. “part of” as in a ‘n a comes at a huge price. Oh well.

  22. colby said,

    your all crazy and I am even crazier for reading this crap. I am going to a meeting.

    • harrassedinroundlake said,

      Good for you if it never goes bad, that is the way it is supposed to be. Be aware that others may have run into bad meetings, people or groups of people and have had great problems.

      Have a little appreciation for those whose stories you don’t understand that may seem a little hard to believe. If you had to walk a mile in people’s shoes, you might gain some understanding.

      Peace and Love and, most importantly, sobriety

    • susan said,

      do you go for recovery or the people? It’s a little club that people will do anything to have status in and they do terrible things to keep their own positions in that club. When I was there it could be compared to “Lord of the Flies’ as a social experiment

  23. karen parker said,

    the members of AA abused, stalked and humilited me.
    one of the members with long term soberity poisioned me.
    i am not a wack a doo.
    i am a former member, who has not had a drink in 18 years.
    without a meeting.
    thank you for posting.

    • Earl said,


      It’s often the long term members that have become twisted over the years in the AA cult enviornment. They resent those who have moved on with their lives. They are indeed a sick bunch of SOB’s…AA is their life, as they have no life and probably no career paths, or other creative avenues to add quality to life. “Misery loves company” and they want your company…

    • harrassedinroundlake said,

      I too have had things put in my coffee and food by members.

      You are not a wack a doo, you are fantastic.

    • Patrick Hatfield said,

      You have certainly been stalked and humiliated! You’re sincere and should contact the authorities about your situation. I will.

  24. harrassedinroundlake said,

    You are not alone, I have also faced all sorts of harrassment due to attending an AA program in which I tried to get help. They spread rumors and harrass me and also follow me around.

    See website http://www.orange-papers.org/ for support. You are not alone any more.

  25. Patrick Hatfield said,

    “Misery loves company” is the most important thing to remember when being annoyed or stalked by an AA cultist. It’s very unfortunate that a group of people who insist on “doing good” become “do-gooders” and disrupt the lives of friends, family and neighbors. In my situation, neighbors play mind games to harrass others. They abuse a phrase in the Bill W. book about “Whistling In The Dark” and “whistle” while following me. This is harrassment, pure and simple! I now have the technology to record them as they do this, and it will be used in a court of law to prove my case in court. To all of you who are being harrassed, please use audio/visual recordings to display the actions of AA members who annoy you to the point of distraction. They can and will be stopped!

  26. Earl said,

    Have you been forced into AA?

    ©2007 Jack Trimpey, all rights reserved

    Some Background to Consider
    Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) evolved from the Oxford Group, founded by Frank Buchman, a maverick Lutheran clergyman who discovered the awesome potential of mind-control, which he called “God-control.” The Oxford group, known as “groupism,” rose to social prominence during the 1920’s and then fell into disrepute in the late 1930’s when he endorsed the rising European politician, Adolph Hitler. The Oxford group quickly mutated into two another social action groups, Moral Re-Armament (MRA) and Alcoholics Anonymous.

    MRA survives in significant strength today as an international consortium of social leaders devoted to the conversion of national governments to Buchman’s theocratic notions. AA has skyrocketed to become a new world religion with the aim of world domination through evangelical social cultism.

    The 12-step syndicate
    AA is essentially an evangelical fellowship of addiction, its practices, doctrines, and creeds based entirely upon the inverted perceptions, beliefs, values, and loyalties of addicted people. Their common fear is not of relapse but of the moral injunction against self-intoxication by problem drinkers and drug addicts. Because addictive desire emulates our other legitimate survival drives (food, sex, O2, safety, shelter), fellowships of addiction such as AA are ruthless in furthering their influence in the world at large, to make the world more tolerant to substance abuse.

    AA has gained power by discrediting independent recovery as a viable option for substance abusers who have come to the attention of professional licensing boards, and requiring 12-step indoctrination as a condition of retaining their licenses. (One of AA’s profoundly addicted co-founders, Dr. Bob Smith, was a physician who accepted the impaired logic of yet another seriously addicted man, Bill Wilson, who proposed that addiction is an illness in itself, a disease that explains self-intoxication as a one of its symptoms.) Those impaired professionals who reject these “diversion programs” are culled from the health and counseling professions, allowing only those who have submitted to AA to continue in their professions.

    As a self-created, unanimous, majority of experts, these politically rehabilitated, tentatively sober, health care professionals become “two-hatters” who are serving two masters, the public interest and the interests of Alcoholics Anonymous. They are in an intolerable professional conflict of interest, but divert attention from this by posing as experts on the mysteries of addictive disease.

    Using the peerless credibility of the medical profession, AA has aggressively insinuated itself into every functioning elements of American society, including Congress, all of our social agencies, our entire health care system, our corrections and justice systems, the business community including all employers and corporations and so on. Very often AA enlists the force of law to increase its membership, imposing prison sentences upon persons who refuse indoctronation in 12-step recoveryism, even though they would gladly quit drinking for life in exchange for exemption from coerced AA participation.

    Despite its lofty status in our society, Alcoholics Anonymous fits any reasonable definition of “cult,” and meets the criteria usually applied to define cults. It is an aggressive cult which imposes proselytizing duties upon each member, while instructing them to say, “No one speaks for AA.” Members are extraordinarily loyal, perceiving that AA saved their lives, or made life worth living, and that they would perish if deprived of AA. Their first principle is “AA Above All,” subordinating the interests of members to the interests of the organization.

    The doctrine of AA is clear, “My recovery comes first.” Thus the soul of our social service system, the health care system itself, has been converted from traditional scientific and ethical standards to mere emulations found in a parallel social service system we should refer to as the “12-step syndicate.”

    Recoveryism versus addiction recovery
    The heart of AA is its 12-step program, which substitutes the disease concept of misbehavior for the moral axis of human behavior. They perceive that people who habitually misbehave are victims of an inherited disease which renders them incapable of moral conduct. Consequently, AA is attractive and contagious among those prone to antisocial behavior, particularly substance abusers. AA beseeches members to surrender personal responsibility for curbing their base, biological drives, and to turn their lives over to the control of an external, higher authority, such as the group or any self-defined deity. This is in sharp contradiction to the the accumulated wisdom of human history, which defines antisocial behavior as a punishable outcome of free will.

    Participants are actively prevented from accepting moral responsibility for abstinence; such inclinations are labeled “denial,” or diagnosed, “dry drunk.” The loftiest goal is tentative abstinence, one day at a time, while attempting to unravel cosmic mysteries supposedly contained in the 12-step program.

    The 12-steps and their surrounding dogma are highly sophisticated in their ability to quickly burrow into the consciousness of newcomers. An excellent example is AA’s indulgent use of the format and familiar clichés of religion, while firmly denying that it is “religious.” Participants, always vulnerable in some way, usually submit to the group’s arcane definition of words, gradually betraying their foundation of common sense for socially acceptable “groupthink.” The conversion process is threatening to anyone, the more so for people desperate for any kind of help, and many develop serious recovery group disorders. These disorders include unbridled substance abuse, irritability, depression, and suicide. The abstinent outcome for all recovery group organizations is very low, in the single digits, around 5%. Addiction treatment research uses the forms of scientific discourse to lend credibility and respectability to preposterous claims such as “Addiction is a treatable disease,” “Treatment works,” and “It works if you work it.” Addiction research is essentially a marketing effort guided by the addiction treatment industry, which benefits directly from government-sponsored studies claiming to measure the success of addiction treatment.

    Rational Recovery Monitor Program

    Rational Recovery has been the voice of resistance against the 12-step syndicate for a quarter of a century, and our unyielding, pro-choice message has had an impact on many lives, and upon our social service system as well. We have taken a strong stand against the addiction treatment industry, as in this article in the Congressional Quarterly, and in some jurisdictions, Rational Recovery is specifically accepted in lieu of forced participation in recovery groups. Other jurisdictions in several states accept Rational Recovery Monitor Program on a case-by-case basis.

    The Rational Recovery Monitor Program (RRMP) is part of the membership area of the RR website. Quite a number of people from different parts of the country post there regularly, a good number of whom are exempted from the usual requirement of 12-step meetings. The terms of the RRMP are described here. You will have access to the Advanced Crash Course on AVRT®, which is more sophisticated and “weighty” than the version in the book, and you can enter the Rational Recovery Discussion Forums, to look upon others also learning AVRT-based recovery, and get some occasional expert guidance from yours truly.

    Many people subscribe to the RRMP even though their local courts will not accept independent recovery through planned, permanent abstinence, even though lifetime abstinence far surpasses the passive non-achievement of one-day-at-a-time sobriety. The RRMP is a good place to hang your hat while you endure required 12-step meetings, and is probably essential if you plan to fight city hall.

    Things for you to know:
    The law is entirely on your side. AA has been ruled “religious” almost every time it has been challenged as such in federal and state supreme courts. There is little compliance by public agencies, however, due to the extent of employment of AA members by public agencies, and the public addiction hysteria which seems to justify any impropriety to combat the imagined epidemic of addictive disease. Justice is expensive, however. You may need local legal counsel, but there are a number of things you may accomplish on your own. It boils down to how far you are willing to be pushed, and how much you are willing to risk in order to demand respect for your Constitutional rights.

    Science is on your side. No evidence of addictive disease has been found. Addiction, ironically, is a robust desire for intense pleasure found in healthy people. No treatment for addiction exists, although many futile remedies in use are called addiction treatment.

    Common sense is on your side. Although politically correct thinking has it that addiction is a treatable disease, most people harbor serious misgivings about this silly notion. When the disease concept of addiction is openly challenged, it has trouble passing the giggle test. When the 12-step program is presented to uninformed people, they usually gasp to see how religious it is, and how irrelevant it is to quitting the use of alcohol and other drugs.

    Professional ethics are on your side. Membership in a 12-step organization disqualifies any professional person from providing direct services to addicted people or to other substance abusers. For a thorough review of conflict of interest, read this analysis, which has been submitted to the National Association of Social Workers.

    Although AA says the only requirement for membership is the desire to quit drinking/using, AA is bound together by the desire to continue drinking or using drugs, which we call the Beast. AAers deeply fear lifetime abstinence, so much so that they believe they are incapable of willing it. AA aggressively apprehends substance abusers at a vulnerable time in order to place its stamp of disease upon the person. With a doctrine of tentative abstinence, the 12-step movement prevents people from taking personal (read: moral) responsibility for permanent abstinence, leaving the door open to future self-intoxication one day at a time. This plays directly into the original problem of being tempted to get high, and people thus willingly succumb to the ideas of powerlessness and a lifetime struggle to remain sober.

    Know thine enemies
    People who take personal respsponsibility for addiction and their own recoveries are an extreme threat to the addiction treatment industry, whose employees are nearly all members of the 12-step community. Twelve-steppers will use various means to discredit your accomplishment of becoming permanently abstinent, most often by “undiagnosing” you (Didn’t have the problem in the first place), or calling your accomplishment “spontaneous remission.” Failing that, they will portray you as a sick, disgusting person, essentially mentally ill, who is in deep denial, and who will inevitably drink or use again unless forced to participate in AA.

    Each time you try to stand up they will pull you down, to make sure that your solution to the problem of addiction — moral responsibility for permanent abstinence — is never imposed upon them. So, remember, they desperately want you to fail on your own, and will do everything they can to get you to drink or use again. They will predict it over and over, and pull dirty tricks on you to test your ability to abstain in the face of frustration. In Drug Courts, which are AA kangaroo courts, you may be legally better off to drink and use drugs than to produce proof of your abstinence based on your own personal integrity. As long as you call your binges “relapses” you will be welcomed back into the program and avoid incarceration. If you speak against AA in Drug Court, you may be expelled from class and imprisoned by a judge who may himself be member of AA. Similar conditions exist in practically all drunk driver and impaired professional diversion programs, as described in this Congressional Quarterly article.

    They, the AA zealots who have a hold on you, will never let you go. They will use the professions of medicine, psychology, and social work to indict you with new diseases and infirmities. They will employ psychologists to write damning reports about how you are “in deep denial” and portray you as a menace to society because of your rejection of AA. They will use mysterious language to incite judges and juries against you, always holding out their cherished 12-step program as your imminent savior. Immediately, stop labeling yourself an alcoholic. This marks you as a second class citizen who will be discriminated against before the law.

    Your captors will always squeeze you at your weakest point, and will threaten anything you hold dear to retain you as a group member, i.e., your job, your driver’s license, your child, your health care, your reputation, your physical freedom. Anything goes, anything at all, but the public turns a blind eye to this atrocity, believing substance addiction to be so bad that any measures, no matter how extreme, are justifiable to combat the imagined epidemic of addictive disease. To “two-hatters,” the professionals who are also AA members, a small dose of authority acts like the rabies virus, causing misuse of authority and vicious attacks on dissenters and critics. This is partly because they sense that they sense are dying inside, and are desperately trying to justify selling out their own lives to the addiction of recovery by forcing their cult doctrine upon others. Remember that you are dealing with desperate people who will do anything to advance their cause. What you see in them is exactly what you are trying to avoid in your own life.

    Everything you say will be used against you. They show the friendly side of their tyranny, often make up incriminating information in their clinical and court records. By promising that you will benefit greatly by telling on yourself, they will cajole and seduce you into admitting things about yourself that are nobody’s business but your own, and then pass that incriminating information to the court.

    Do not hesitate to lie to any member of AA in authority; it is well established that when you know the evil intentions of an inquisitor, lying is a moral response. AA groupers are morally deficient across the board, since they have accepted the false doctrine of addictive disease to explain their own past immoral conduct.

    Here is some guidance, based on our experience and what is happening elsewhere.

    1. Before you make any decisions on what course you will take, get everything you can in writing, especially any documents containing the words Alcoholics Anonymous or addiction treatment. This includes the child protective services records, the court records or documents, etc. Prepare your own manuscript, telling your story of misguidance and mistreatment. Keep it current.

    2. As in 1., above, make a list of all who have harmed you by conspiring to force you into the 12-step program of Alcoholics Anonymous, and become willing to make matters right for yourself and others who will follow you. Using the best means at your disposal, determine who of those are members of any 12-step program. If any of those individuals is licensed by a professional board, prepare to file grievances to those boards, and to file malpractice lawsuits and civil rights lawsuits against them all. Whether you decide to move forward with this is initially less important than being prepared and willing to do so.

    3. Rational Recovery will help you draft complaints and grievances.

    4. Talk with an attorney. Ask first these questions:
    • Are you or anyone you know a member of Alcoholics Anonymous?
    •Have you ever seen a copy of the 12-step program of Alcoholics Anonymous? If not, show him/her a copy.
    •Do you believe that AA is a religion as referred to in the First Amendment?
    •Subscribe immediately to the Rational Recovery Monitor Program, and get these publications from the RR bookstore: ◦Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction
    ◦The Journal of Rational Recovery (complete collection on CD)
    ◦Rational Recovery Defends the Untreatables (DVD)

    •Semd me email to fill me in on a little more about you, i.e., occupation, addiction history, etc. If you have status with EEOC, this could be very important.
    •Visit the link, The Forced Speak Out, and the other feedback links at this website. Contribute your own story as a way of getting your case together.

    We do not urge or incite people to resist AA, but we are the resistance. Our general position is, “You draw the line, and we’ll step up to it.” We know that you are closer to the problem and know best what risks you are willing to make for your own interests and others’. If you want to fight, we are spoiling for a fight, because we view AA as the collective Beast, organized to preserve tentative abstinence in a society that has always been intolerant of inebriety.

    I hope you will spend some time writing up your story in greater detail, including information about the individuals and agencies that are violating you.

    You may be able to file a civil rights suit on your own behalf without obtaining an attorney.

    Keep in touch.

    Jack Trimpey

  27. Earl said,

    When Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programs are examined in controlled studies, a new review reports, scientists find no proof that they are superior to any other intervention in reducing alcohol dependence or alcohol-related problems.

    The researchers, led by Marica Ferri of the Italian Agency for Public Health in Rome, found little to suggest that 12-step programs reduced the severity of addiction any more than any other intervention. And no data showed that 12-step interventions were any more — or any less — successful in increasing the number of people who stayed in treatment or reducing the number who relapsed after being sober.

    Alcoholics Anonymous is a self-help group that offers emotional support for alcohol abstinence and holds that alcoholism is a spiritual and a medical disease.

    In some of the studies reviewed, A.A. was compared with other psychological treatments including cognitive-behavioral therapy, which encourages the conscious identification of high-risk situations for alcohol use; motivational enhancement therapy, based on principles of social and cognitive psychology; and relapse prevention therapy, a variation on the cognitive-behavioral approach. It was also compared with other spiritual and nonspiritual 12-step programs.

    One study compared brief advice to attend A.A. meetings to motivational methods for encouraging 12-step involvement. Another evaluated the effectiveness of hospital-based 12-step programs, compared with community-based 12-step efforts.

    The paper was published last week in The Cochrane Library, a journal devoted to systematic reviews of health care interventions. In all, the researchers examined eight trials involving 3,417 men and women ages 18 and older.

    None of the studies compared A.A. with no treatment at all, and the researchers said that made it more difficult to draw conclusions about effectiveness. About one-fifth of alcoholics achieve long-term sobriety without treatment.

    There is no single known cause of alcoholism, but the researchers wrote that about two-thirds of alcohol dependence could be attributed to genetic factors and one-third to environmental causes like stress or emotional problems. Men and women are equally affected, and age does not appear to affect prognosis.

    A member of the staff of the general service office of Alcoholics Anonymous said the organization did not comment on published studies of the program, but some experts objected to the methods and conclusions of the review.

    “Although the randomized controlled trial is the gold-standard methodology in comparing between conditions,” said Thomas G. Brown, an assistant professor of psychiatry at McGill University, “it washes out a factor that may be important in potentiating A.A.’s benefits, namely patient choice and preference.” In other words, having a patient choose the form of treatment, rather than being assigned to it as in most studies, could be an important factor.

    Despite the largely negative findings, John F. Kelly, a clinical psychologist at Harvard, said he still believed that A.A. and other 12-step programs were effective.

    A.A. and other 12-step programs “are not cure-alls,” Dr. Kelly said, “but I would say at a minimum, they help.”

    Dr. Edward V. Nunes, a professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia, said research had demonstrated that certain elements of A.A. were effective. “Some of the wisdom embodied in A.A., such as the notion of persons, places and things that trigger drinking, are very much a part of cognitive-behavioral therapy, which is a scientifically driven, empirically validated treatment,” Dr. Nunes said.

    The review covered only carefully controlled trials. But Sarah Zemore, of the Alcohol Research Group of the National Alcohol Research Center, said studies that observed the results of a treatment without setting up randomized control groups could also be informative.

    “Does A.A. or some other mutual-help group work for people who seek it voluntarily?” she said. “Obviously, a randomized trial cannot address that question. But observational data can.”

    It is unlikely that substance abuse experts will widely reject A.A. on the basis of these findings.

    “A.A. has helped a lot of people,” Dr. Nunes said. “There are a lot of satisfied customers. On the basis of that, we have to take it seriously.”

  28. Earl said,

    Bill Wilson was a pathological womanizer, a fraudulent business man, a con artist who begged for whiskey on his death bed and left royalities from his “Big Book” to his mistress…therefore in AA we must deny that Will Wilson ever existed…


    Mind Control Tactics Of Alcoholics Anonymous

    By Devin Sexson une 2002
    In deciding whether or not our beloved alcoholism cure “Alcoholics Anonymous” is a cult, it is important to come up with a definition of the word “cult.” The word itself tends to draw controversy. When any particular group is labeled a cult the term is hotly disputed by members, supporters, and sympathizers with the organization. There are exceptions to this–the most notorious of cults are not likely to be defended. These would be Charles Manson’s Family, Jim Jones’ Peoples Temple, Heaven’s Gate, and the like. These are the examples that often come to mind when the term “cult” is used. These are the most extreme examples of a destructive cult and mind-control organization. On the other hand, the loosest definition of the word is likely to label an innocuous group of model railroad enthusiasts a cult.

    The specific definition that I’m using to describe the cultic properties of AA is the BITE model that has been developed by Steve Hassan. Cult expert Hassan is the author of “Combating Mind Control” and “Releasing The Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves,” two highly acclaimed books dealing with the issues of mind-control, spiritual responsibility, and exit counseling for ex-cult members. The BITE model is used as a guideline to determine what extent a particular group practices mind-control tactics for the purpose of diminishing a member’s personal identity. The acronym stands for Behavior, Information, Thoughts, and Emotions. In examining an organization we can look at these four categories and consider how, why and to what extent these aspects are controlled by the group, in order to determine its level of mind-control over the members.

    I consider the BITE model to be a very useful tool in defining cult-like characteristics because it creates a clear distinction between groups that may be dangerous and lead to behavior and ideas that are destructive, and groups that provide real benefit for their members and ultimately our society. Being able to look at an organization and determine the level of mind-control that is being used within it helps us to know how to deal with that organization on a societal level when exercising political activism against destructive cults. It also enables us to determine the best methods to assist those who have been victimized by them.

    Hassan himself does not consider Alcoholics Anonymous an organization that fits the BITE model. He credits AA for providing a great service to those who have found relief from alcoholism through the organization. He agrees that AA is not suitable for all people, is potentially destructive for some members, and that alternative programs may be more beneficial.

    Having been a member of AA for many years, I have a different view of it. I consider the program of Alcoholics Anonymous a destructive cult that uses all methods of mind-control tactics for the specific purposes of incorporating its members into a belief system that demolishes their individuality, crushes their independence, and creates numerous psychologically damaging side effects. I will discuss the aspects of AA as they relate to each category of the BITE model, but first I will discuss AA as it is presented to the general public to help explain why this issue is disputed with such adamancy on both sides.

    Alcoholics Anonymous has been known as the program that has saved the lives of millions of people who are suffering from the disease of alcoholism. There is no shortage of people who will testify to having been at the edge of death from years of over-consumption of alcohol. After finding refuge in the program of AA they have experienced nothing short of a miraculous transformation. They will tell you that they would surely be dead if not for AA. AA meetings are free of charge, widely available, and the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. The program of AA is based on the idea of one alcoholic helping another, mutually supportive of one another. There is a camaraderie, understanding, and acceptance that can only come from those who have been there and done that. The program has spread around the world. They claim to have over two million members. The structure of the program contains no leadership; it is maintained by adherence to the 12 traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and a spirit of cooperation amongst its membership.

    The program of AA is based on the 12 steps, which are suggested as a program of recovery. These 12 steps have been adapted to fit numerous other organizations for the purposes of overcoming problems with addiction to drugs, sex, gambling, overeating, smoking, and many more. There are hundreds of books about using the 12 steps in daily living. They are advocated by just about every author of popular psychology books, every TV talk show host, 90% of addiction treatment centers, the United States court system, and the 12-Step programs are almost always praised in the mainstream media. There is no doubt that AA has made a good name for itself with the public since its formation in 1935. Most people who have no experience with the 12-step programs accept the dominant opinion of our society and consider it to be a good thing.

    AA is not known for many of the things that we think of as making a cult. AA members are not going to commit mass suicide, they don’t sell flowers in airports, they don’t go door-to-door, they do not live communally, stockpile weapons, or dress in distinctive attire. These are aspects of the most recognizable cultic groups but not things that are typical of all of them. But one can still be a victim of mind-control tactics without it being that obvious on the surface, as the majority of cult members are.

    It should be pointed out that AA exists in different forms. Public AA usually consists of meetings and a tight-knit social group. AA treatment is a facility where people live for a short period of time, usually 1-3 months. There are some inpatient 12-step treatment programs that can last up to a year or more. There is a wide range of involvement with the program from intensely strict communal living arrangements to an occasional meeting and very little time and energy dedicated to the program. The frequency of AA meetings depends on the population of the community. In a large city there are many different meetings to choose from and they go from early morning to late at night. Even very small rural communities usually have a weekly AA meeting. Some meetings are called “open” meetings–anyone is free to attend them. There are also “closed” meetings, which are restricted to those who have a problem with alcohol, and a desire to stop drinking. In analyzing AA as it relates to the BITE model, I’m going to concentrate on the most common form of AA, the publicly held meetings. I am also limiting my discussion to Alcoholics Anonymous, and setting aside all the other 12-step programs that have grown out of the original program of AA.

    Considering the program that I have described, it may seem absurd to be critical toward such a thing. Why would anyone object? Even if it’s not as effective as they like to portray it as being, it couldn’t hurt, right? No, actually it can and it does.


    Steve Hassan has drawn up a list of criteria that constitutes behavior control. The first aspect of behavioral control that is addressed is the limitation of a person’s physical reality. This includes where the person lives, what they eat, how their time is spent, and what they wear.

    Before analyzing the level of behavioral control it is important to look at the people who enter AA in the first place. These are usually people who have experienced a tremendous amount of suffering as the result of alcohol dependency. They are likely to have had legal problems, relationship problems, health problems, lack of mental stability, financial problems, etc. They may have come to AA from jail, the hospital, or a treatment program. They may have done it as a result of pressure from friends and family, or work; some are mandated by court order to attend AA. Chemical dependency does cause a great deal of misery in peoples’ lives. Some become utterly desperate and go to AA after being told that it is the only way they can be helped. Unlike almost every other cult, nobody joins it because they think it might be fun and a good opportunity to meet some interesting new people.

    In the examining and evaluating the level of behavioral control in a group situation, it is best to create a model of comparison. What freedom of behavior do I now have that I did not have as a member of AA? Outside of the organization, I’m still bound by society’s laws and expectations, my personal obligations, my own physical and mental limitations, but I do have a much greater degree of personal freedom than I did as a member of AA.

    I will describe the process that a person could expect at their first meeting. Bear in mind that the usual situation for new members is that they are people who have problems and are seeking relief from their situation. Someone who is newly sober will not be thinking clearly. These people are very suggestible and often desperate and very vulnerable. The meetings are very ritualistic: there are certain traditions that are almost never deviated from. Steve Hassan starts the description of behavior control with the regulation of individual’s personal reality. The use of rituals that are engaged in by all those surrounding the individual is a highly effective way of controlling the person’s behavior and defining the physical reality for this person. Each meeting starts with a moment of silence followed by the Serenity Prayer. The entire group almost always participates in this ritual, heads bowed and chanting in unison. This is followed by a reading from the basic text titled “Alcoholics Anonymous” commonly referred to as “The Big Book.” This reading contains the 12 steps, which are the basic structure of the program. The 12 traditions, which are guidelines that each group is expected to follow, are then read aloud.

    At every meeting the group is asked if there are any celebrations for specific periods of time sober, if there are any visitors from out of town, and if there is anyone attending his or her first meeting. Every member uses the specific format: “My name is Joe, and I’m an alcoholic.” This is always followed by the group response “Hi Joe!” At this point, a newcomer may introduce him or herself; they will likely be greeted with much enthusiasm and encouragement. The newcomer is assumed to be part of the organization. As a welcomed member of the group they are then given instructions as to what specific behaviors are expected of them. Establishing ritual creates the first step in further control over the person’s behavior.

    The usual recommendation is to attend 90 meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor as soon as possible. Granted, there is no way to make sure that a newcomer actually does this, unless there is some kind of legal order to do so. The way it is done is through a form of peer pressure. At this point one is either going to become a full member of AA or one who just comes by occasionally or abandons the group altogether after a period of time. One who becomes a full member will take the suggestions seriously. One who is not willing to participate on that level will never be completely accepted into the group. There is a very clear separation between those who are peripheral members and those who are in the inner circle.

    “Are you in AA or around AA?” This is the standard slogan that is used to encourage people to become more involved with the program. If you are going to be “in AA” you will go to those 90 meeting in 90 days and you will get your AA sponsor to guide you in the program. The mindset of the newcomer is highly based on fear. The memory of the mental anguish and often life-threatening situations of active addiction is fresh; the idea of returning to such a state of existence can be terrifying. Out of fear, the newcomer will feel compelled to seek relief. It is the old-timers who control the dominant discourse in the meetings, usually authoritarian, dogmatic, manipulative and aggressive. They are easy to recognize in any meeting. They will state the number of years they have been sober in the program, and they will admonish any newcomers who say something that is inconsistent with the tenets of AA with a condescending comment. Sometimes just a glare, a cough, or grunt is all it takes to let the group know that what was just said was “wrong.” The message is clear; if you don’t want to relapse into active addiction, you will do as we say.

    The member’s behavior is guided by fear. Every single day for a period of three months new members go to an hour-long AA meeting. The newcomer is expected to ask a more experienced member “Will you be my sponsor?” This establishes the new member as being inferior, less knowledgeable and needy. The newcomer is demeaned and humiliated by this act. The sponsor is tacitly elected to control the new person’s life to whatever degree is tolerated. The degree to which a sponsor will dictate someone’s behavior varies greatly. There are some who are very demanding: they develop every aspect of behavior that is associated with cult gurus. I knew one who insisted that his male followers wear short haircuts and suits, and one who insisted on eight meetings a week, no matter how long the member has been in the program. Typically a sponsor will insist on very frequent meetings. The sponsor will usually require regular phone contact, reading and discussion of all AA materials. All this person’s extra time will be consumed with the program. It is not uncommon for a member to have no social life outside of the group.

    Not all AA members follow this scenario. This is the encouraged path. This is what is expected to be part of the “in” group. Those members who do not get a sponsor, do not attend meetings frequently, do not pay attention to the literature, are never fully accepted into the fold.

    Hassan’s second and third aspects of behavioral control are major time committed to indoctrination, and the need to ask permission for major decisions. In AA the frequent meeting attendance, time spent with the sponsor and at social gatherings, and the amount of time spent reading and learning the program amount to a major portion of the member’s life. And there are certain things that are suggested by the sponsor, and in dominant discourse in the meetings, concerning major life decisions. A new member is told to place recovery as their first priority. They are told not to get involved in an intimate relationship, change jobs, get divorced, stop smoking, move to a different city, or make any major decisions for the first year of recovery. Unemployed newcomers are told not to worry about getting a job but to concentrate on recovery and go to lots of meetings. In some cases a sponsor will become dangerously controlling and attempt to manage every aspect of a person’s life. The sponsor is the mentor, to whom all information is divulged. The fifth step in AA is to confess “the exact nature of our wrongs.” This is the next aspect of behavioral control in the BITE model, reporting thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors. Those members of the group who have been around longer and have more time sober are considered to be superiors. There is an unstated hierarchy that naturally develops.

    AA claims the lack of specific leaders as evidence that it is not a cult. Since co-founder Bill Wilson died in 1971, there has not been a specific leader of AA who can be called by name. That does not mean that they don’t exist. Leaders do exist; in every meeting there are the cult gurus. These are usually middle-aged males. They tend to be conservative, authoritarian, narrow minded, and dogmatic. They consider the things that they say in meetings to be of the utmost importance. The members respond to their words as if they were some kind of profound wisdom. It is these gurus who decide who is and who is not accepted into the fold.

    Hassan’s last four aspects of behavioral control are rewards and punishments for purposes of behavior modification, groupthink prevails over individualism, rigid rules, and a need for obedience and dependency. With AA, as with any other cult, these aspects don’t apply as much to the members who are on the edge of the group. When someone is taken into the fold, acceptance from the group becomes a very important issue for them. The old timers shun and ignore those who are not eager to become involved. A member’s ability and willingness to accept the group’s doctrine will be easily identifiable; they will use the AA slogans, quote from the literature frequently, and they will not express independent ideas. Their responses become very predictable. These people become obsessively dedicated to “working the program.” They develop a worshipful attitude toward the old-timers, indiscriminately believing everything they are told by those with more time in AA. If someone goes against the prevailing attitudes in the group, they will be told that they will relapse as a result. They develop a superstitious fear of saying anything critical toward the program. There is a strong encouragement to associate only with other members. It is very common for someone to limit their social group exclusively to AA members. This impacts who they choose as a roommate, where they live, where they work, who they chose as an intimate partner, and every other aspect of a person’s life. The obsession with the program can get to the point where an indoctrinated member thinks and talks about nothing but AA.

    New members become convinced that they must conform to the expectations of the group. The primary tactic used to control behavior is fear. Those who do not do as they are told and believe the dogma will suffer a terrible fate; they relapse and then they die. The behavior of the newcomer is dictated by the induced phobia of relapse and death. These people are led to believe that their lives are fully dependent on the program. The sponsors make the rules on an individual basis; the old-timers are in charge of the group dynamics. Anyone expressing criticism toward the program is countered with condescending remarks, ridicule or hostility. Anyone who openly questions or disagrees with the prevailing group discourse will not be accepted into the inner circle. They may remain on the edge of AA, but will never truly become part of the group. These people will inevitably leave the program altogether.

    In looking at my life after my involvement with the cult in comparison to my life as a member of the cult, I clearly see a difference in the level of freedom I have over my own behavior. I am not one who would choose to participate in a group prayer; I am not inclined to choose someone as a spiritual guide or mentor. I never went to those meetings because I enjoyed them, I attended out of fear of relapsing and dying. While I was in the cult my social group consisted almost entirely of members of the organization. I now socialize with a diverse group of people and engage in a wide variety of activities. I do not have to set aside time to attend meetings or social functions. I am free to discuss any topic I want to. The primary difference concerning behavior is that my time is my own. I have no obligation to attend these meetings, social events, or conventions. I don’t have to worry about that phone call, “Haven’t seen you at a meeting in a while, are you all right?” That’s right, “Big Sponsor” is watching you.

    I would not refrain from making any major decisions in my life for any period of time. I do not consider anyone to be the vehicle of sublime wisdom. I do not feel the need to or see the advantage of engaging in a ritualized confession. I do not depend on anyone to tell me what to read, think about, believe, or do. There is an incredible amount of control that is gained over people’s lives when they are convinced that they have a deadly disease and they will die unless they do what they told. I have discovered that I am able to live my life without being guided by fear and the result is freedom.


    The categories and sub-categories in Steve Hassan’s BITE model are very clear and specific. This has been greatly beneficial to me in my continuing insight about how I got caught up in this particular cult. The first sub-category under information control is the use of deception. Examples of this are, deliberately holding back information, distorting information to make it more acceptable, and outright lying.

    In AA there are a multitude of things that you will not hear about: these things are suppressed. You will never hear about alternative methods of recovery, except in very derogatory context. The sexual, psychological, and physical abuse that takes place in AA is never talked about. Scientific advances in the treatment of alcoholism are never brought up. The fact that it has been shown that the program often does more harm than good for a great many people will never be discussed.

    AA describes itself as “the program that has saved the lives of millions of alcoholics.” One thing that they are never clear about is the actual rate of recovery. Since the members of the program are anonymous and no records are kept on anyone, reliable statistics are scarce. The studies that have been done in order to determine the actual number of AA members who achieve long-term abstinence from alcohol show a range from 2-5%. The number of addicted people who achieve remission without any program at all is about 70% according to NLAES (National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemological Survey).

    AA is said to be a “spiritual, not religious” program. This is a gross manipulation of words, just to make the program more acceptable to newcomers. A good way to see the clear distortion of information is to compare AA’s promotional literature with their official basic text and the dominant discourse that takes place among the members. AA’s promotional literature claims, “there is room in AA for people of all shades of belief and disbelief.” The Big Book states, “to live life on a spiritual basis or face an alcoholic death are not easy alternative to face.” In the meetings a commonly heard slogan is, “work the steps or die.” This is one of a multitude of examples of how the promotional literature that one finds in AA pamphlets or magazine articles shows AA as an easy-going loosely defined fellowship. But the Big Book of AA paints a picture of grave warnings and death threats. It is obsessively religious and claims to be about hope and inspiration for the alcoholic, but is filled with dark and morbid overtones. The information that goes out to the public is clearly designed to make AA look inviting, all accepting, enjoyable, and effective. Once the member is inside, things change. All of the information is geared toward making the member obedient and dependent.

    The outright lies of AA exist in abundance at every level, in the promotional literature, the basic texts, and the discourse among the members. AA claims it acquires members by “attraction rather than promotion,” but the court system mandates attendance to their meetings, and the 12th step instructs the members to “carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers.” AA promotion is found in magazines, newspapers, books, movies, and other sources. It is not uncommon to hear members claim that it is a scientifically proven fact that AA is the only possible way to recover from alcoholism. I have made calls to 12-step based treatment centers and been told that alternative programs to AA do not exist. AA’s promotional literature claims that no alcoholic ever returns to moderate drinking; the truth is that many have. They claim that there is no leadership in AA; actually there is a clear hierarchy that develops in the groups. The groups are as far from democratic as you can get; the old-timers in control demand strict adherence to the dogma. The Big Book makes outrageous statements. One of my favorite examples of an outright lie in this text is, “Since this book was first published, AA has released thousands of alcoholics from asylums and hospitals of every kind. The majority have never returned.” Not only is this untrue, but it was written word for word in the original manuscript, before the book was ever published. The newcomer is told that they have a disease, the disease is deadly and incurable, there is only one possible way to keep from dying of this disease and that is to go to meetings, read the Big Book, get a sponsor and work the steps. This too is a blatant lie. The members of the program are taught to accept these and other lies as absolute, indisputable truth. If one dares to expose these lies for what they are they will not be part of the inner circle of AA. Believing and repeating lies is one of the major expectations of the group.

    The steps are said in the Big Book to be only “suggestions,” but these suggestions are read at the beginning of every meeting. A commonly heard slogan is “the steps are suggested like it is suggested that you use a parachute when jumping out of an airplane.” The old-timers talk about working the steps they never speak of using other “suggestions.” They will welcome people by saying that there are no “musts” in the program. Your higher power can be anything you want it to be. Such things as a doorknob, the AA group itself, or a tree are recommended as points to start believing in a power greater that yourself. As one gets into the program the definition of AA’s “higher power” becomes a narrowly defined tyrannical god as AA understands him.

    Hassan says a mind-control cult will minimize and discourage non-cult or outside information. In the AA meetings outside information is not just minimized or discouraged, it is forbidden. Only AA conference-approved literature is read, distributed, or discussed at meetings. An AA sponsor will almost always reinforce the limitation to AA literature outside the meetings. Among the members scientific information about alcohol addiction is ridiculed. People who criticize the program are labeled angry and dishonest. Those who question the tenets are considered uninformed and need to go to more meetings to find out what it’s all about. Information that is critical of AA is never considered valid, and will not be discussed objectively. The Big Book is often considered to be “inspired by God.” It is not disputed.

    According to Hassan, a cult will have different levels and types of information that are used and distributed in different ways. In AA there are widely available promotional pamphlets which are shown to the public. The conference-approved literature used at meetings is not limited from public access, but is not quoted much in promotional information. The old-timers control the information that is acceptable in the meetings. On the highest level of AA World Services, information is kept strictly out of the hands of the regular members. The inner working of AA on the highest level is a mystery to regular members. Despite what they tell the public, it is a highly secretive organization. There are several front organizations that disseminate information to the public such as the National Council of Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD,) the National Association of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors (NAADAC,) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM.) These organizations hide their relationship to AA on a public level, but publish information that is consistent with the tenets of AA such as information about the disease model, the spiritual disease, the need for a spiritual cure, etc. This information is rarely questioned in the mainstream media.

    Members, however, are usually manipulated into divulging all information about themselves to their sponsor. There is frequent checking up on members who haven’t been seen at meetings for a while. An unexpected visit may happen, phone calls, people ask about other members at meetings. As for the extensive use of cult-generated propaganda, AA not only indoctrinates their own members with propaganda, they use their front organizations to disseminate information to the general public. Almost all of the drug and alcohol rehabilitation centers are based on AA’s 12-step model. These organizations do not give their clients any information about alternative methods. They claim that the 12-step model is the best if not the only way to recover from addiction. Although they claim that they are not affiliated with AA, they use exclusively AA conference approved literature. These programs are vehemently opposed to any alternative resources. This has a tremendous effect, not just on the members, but on the general public. Many people are unaware that alternative programs even exist. This demonstrates a highly effective propaganda machine that has been orchestrated by AA.

    The level of secrecy at the top of the AA pyramid is mirrored by the level at which privacy of the regular members is violated. In AA confession takes place in the fourth and fifth steps of the program. The fourth step reads: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory on ourselves, and the fifth: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. It is usually the sponsor who acts as the person hearing the confession, although some members choose to use clergy or a therapist. There is strong pressure from the group to go through the confession. “If you don’t do a fourth you will drink a fifth.” The superstition is constantly reinforced that one must follow the procedure or they will return to active addiction and they will die. The sponsors in the program often take advantage of the prevailing attitude that the member must confess everything, hold nothing back or else they will drink again. Violation of confidentiality is not uncommon. Goading members into revealing things about themselves that are humiliating, demeaning, and destructive to self-esteem is precisely the point of the confession process. There is no method of absolving one’s past moral shortcomings in the program. In meetings there is a degree of one-upmanship that occurs. The worse one makes himself appear, the better. Members whose lives were not quite as gruesome before joining AA will feel compelled to lie and fabricate stories in order to fit in, or relapse and have more extreme “adventures” to report to the group.

    When I was a member of the cult I had only a vague idea about alternative programs for addiction recovery. I was under the impression that any information that contradicted the program was false information. I had almost no knowledge of scientific research about addiction. I had no idea of how the upper levels of AA worked.

    New information about addiction is never added; new concepts are never considered. An AA member will get a certain amount of information and then that’s it. Whenever the idea of updating the basic text or making changes in the program is brought up it is met with condescending remarks or hostility. There is no learning in AA, only indoctrination.

    Since I left AA, I have investigated numerous programs dealing with addiction. I have read a multitude of books on the subject. I have also studied psychological theories and practices for overcoming drug dependence and dealing with mind-control. Before leaving AA, I was controlled by the superstitious fears that are intrinsic to the program. I had developed a belief system that made it a kind of “sin” to explore ideas concerning addiction recovery. The punishment for committing such a sin would be death. Those who criticize AA are often accused of “killing alcoholics.” They are actually called “murderers” in some cases because they would lead the alcoholic away from the one true “proven” method of recovery.

    AA does have a way of creating the irrational belief system in a fairly short period of time. The reasons for this are that the people who come in to AA are often in desperate condition. They will be willing to accept anything that appears to be a viable solution to their problem. The dominant discourse in society mirrors much of what AA says. The result is that newcomers have little reason to question the validity of what they are told.


    I came, I came to, I came to believe. These are the words you will hear at AA meetings to briefly describe how someone has been “saved” from the clutches of alcoholism. AA, its members, its literature, its doctrine are always good; these things will always lead you away from taking that first drink. Alternative programs, critical literature, former members, non-members, and one’s own ideas are “deadly.” These things will lead to drinking and drinking means certain death.

    A great many AA members actually believe that their lives depend on the program literally; they are thoroughly convinced that if they were not in AA they would be dead. The old-timers will say repeatedly, the way to stay sober is you don’t drink, go to meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps, and read the Big Book. That’s how they did it. The dogma is backed up by stories, often graphic, horrific anecdotes of what life was like when they were drinking. The old-timers tell of time spent in jails, mental institutions, suicide attempts, life threatening injuries, hospital emergency rooms, and of course they tell the tales of those who didn’t find AA in time, and worse, those who did find AA, but committed the deadly sin of abandoning the program. Those victims of alcoholism whose dead bodies were found floating in a river, in a smashed up automobile, hanging from a rope in a hotel room, or bloated and stinking behind a dumpster. The old-timers will then claim that it is AA that saved them from this horrible disease. If they do not work the steps, go to meetings, etc. the disease will take over and they will drink themselves to death.

    There is no doubt that alcohol dependence kills people. AA uses this fact and blends it with their fictional cure to create a very powerful form of thought control. The program is not designed to create an independence from alcohol, it is specifically designed and fine-tuned to create a dependence on the group. Anything that might lead one away from the group is considered dangerous. Grave warnings are given about spending too much time with work, family, or hobbies. The members are told to put as much effort into recovery as they did into drinking.

    “Recovery must come first,” is what people are told. This does not mean doing what one needs to do in order to create a life that is free from alcohol, it means devoting one’s self to the program. Those people that are not alcoholics, and never had the joy of joining AA are called “normies,” “flatlanders,” or “earth people.” These outsiders do not know what it is like to have the disease; they will not understand those who are in recovery. AA claims that there is a psychological difference that alcoholics have from the outsiders, and they need AA in order to arrest the disease. The program is filled with its own insider jargon and redefined words that the members learn to use. The result is that they speak in such a way that those outside the program really don’t understand what the AA folks are talking about. The claim is that no one ever fully recovers from alcoholism, they only get a relief from it one day at a time with the help of their higher power, and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. The intent is dependence and obedience, not health and freedom.

    Hassan starts the list of criteria for thought control with the insistence that the members internalize the groups’ doctrine as “truth,” which includes black and white thinking, good and evil, and the “us and them” ideology. One of the tactics that is used in a cult situation is repetition. When someone hears the same thing over and over and hears nothing else to the contrary, they start to believe that it is the truth. This tactic is used extensively in AA. The ideas expressed in meetings never change. The reading from the beginning of chapter five of the Big Book introduces every meeting. It is repeated to the point that the words lose meaning; they become more like a chant, a kind of hypnotic mantra.

    All cults use clich‚s, platitudes, and slogans. They may seem clever and cute at first, but in examining them, they are vapid, overly simplistic pseudo-answers for any situation that a member might have in life. AA has a ridiculous number of these that they use frequently; they are heard at every meeting. Any time the dogma is questioned one of these slogans is given in response: “if it works, don’t fix it.” “let go and let God,” “take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth.” There are lists of hundreds of these slogans that have been compiled. The extensive use of these slogans starts to have an effect; people actually start to believe that the slogans have some significant relevance to their lives. People think in terms of the slogans. They develop a speech pattern where the clichÄs of the program are used habitually in place of thoughtful responses.

    In AA, there is no need to look for subtle indications that there might be tactics that are designed to control the thoughts of the members. AA quite blatantly states that it is wrong to think for one’s self. Self-will is considered evil, having and doing one’s own will is what leads one to relapse in AA. God’s will is good and pure; God’s will keeps you sober. Members are warned, “your best thinking got you here,” “utilize, don’t analyze,” “stinkin’ thinkin’ will lead to drinkin’.” It is only the ideas that come from the program that are safe. Members are taught that their own ideas are “alcoholic,” “diseased.” They are taught that they are not capable of making good decisions for themselves. The level of dependency on the program becomes intense when the members’ own thoughts can only come from the program. Independence is forbidden.

    There is emphasis placed on “getting the program” those who relapse are considered people who just didn’t “get it” this time and are told to “try it again; this time you need to be more thorough.” Fully comprehending the program is said to be the guarantee that one will achieve permanent independence from alcohol. Not only that but the “spiritual awakening” takes place; it is the method by which one achieves “serenity,” free from all their worries and no longer tormented by the trivialities of life, for they are doing the will of God. The first two steps teach members that they are powerless over addiction and they need the help of a power greater than themselves in order to stay sober. The disease is said to be more powerful than the person and so the cure must also be more powerful than the individual. The individual is reduced to absolutely nothing; they must accept the doctrine of the program or yield to the disease.

    This is a sadistic mind-trick. The Big Book is vague and ambiguous, containing page after page of metaphorical gibberish. Nobody can ever understand it because it doesn’t make any sense. There is a format in the Big Book, a combination of absolute statements and metaphorical phrases: “thoroughly follow our path,” “completely give themselves to this simple program,” “want what we have and be willing to got to any lengths…” These are the “instructions” that tell one how to stay sober. The instructions are incomprehensible; this is one of the many reasons that an overwhelming majority of members relapse within a short period of time.

    The messages in the book, the discourse in the meetings, and the promotional literature of AA are full of contradictions. Between the contradictory information, the metaphorical ambiguity, and the overly-simplistic platitudes, the result is an actual damage in the thought process among the members. One’s ability to view real life situations in a realistic and logical manner becomes severely impaired. As this process develops the dependence on the cult increases.

    After I had made one of the most psychologically healthy decisions of my life and decided to walk away from AA and sever my ties with it completely, I found that I was still stuck with a great many cult superstitions. For example, I still referred to myself as a “recovering addict,” I was not willing to let go of the idea that AA may be helpful to some people, I clung to the “disease” concept for some time. I remember coming to the realization that not just some, but all of the program’s information was false. It came as if a huge weight had been lifted off of me when I could comfortably reject every single aspect of the program.


    The most vicious and dehumanizing aspects of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous lie within the category of emotional control. When Hassan outlines the aspects of emotional control in the BITE model, he starts with the narrowing of a person’s range of feelings, and the blame for all problems being placed on the individual rather than the group or leaders. In AA the goal is to have what they call a “spiritual awakening.” This is supposed to be the result of having “worked the steps.” A spiritual awakening is clamed to cause an enlightened state of consciousness that they call “serenity.” Having attained serenity, a person will be free from bad things such as anger, resentment, selfishness, fear, and just about any other negative emotion they claim will inevitably lead to the dreaded relapse. The steps are considered to be an infallible path to the desired state of serenity, and so anything that a member may experience which is unpleasant, is always the fault of that person. If one relapses, that is because they were not rigorously honest; if one gets angry and resentful it is because they are not “working their program.”

    What this creates is an enormous burden of guilt on the members. The steps are undefined and indefinable, therefore it is impossible to actually work them. Members are made to feel guilty for not working a program that can’t be worked; a vicious circle is created. Members learn to create a new identity that is based on the expectations of the group. The member’s place in the group is dependent on the amount of time since his or her last drink; this is what defines who one is as a person in the terms of the group. Six months, five years, nine days, twenty years, and so on are terms that establish one’s position in the cult. Those who relapse are made to feel that they had betrayed the program. No matter how much time they had before, a relapse will put the member back to square one. A top dog who can boast twelve years can get drunk one night and return. They are then considered a “newcomer” and they only have “one day.” Guilt is reinforced by regular confessions and “moral inventories” and anyone who relapses takes full blame. Those who have gone for years without a drink cannot take the credit for it; the credit goes to the program and God.

    During the years that I spent in the program, I have lost track long ago of the number of members who died prematurely. The leading causes are suicides, overdoses, and accidents. I don’t recall anyone who died of natural causes. Fear and indoctrination of phobias are the primary method that AA uses in order to maintain its members. Deviation from the program will result in a relapse and ultimately death. Members are told that they will need the program for their entire lives, and that to abandon it will result in “jails, institutions, and death.” Those who manage to retain abstinence from alcohol after leaving the program are said to be miserable or insane; they are likely to commit suicide.

    Being relived of these fears has given me an enthusiasm for life that I have not felt during the entire time that I was in AA. Abandoning the program is what has enabled me to feel truly alive. Over the years I had struggled with addiction and severe depression, I was always given the same advice: go to more meetings, work the program, get a sponsor, and pray to your higher power. None of this worked. I made my own decision, which was against the advice of everyone that I knew at the time; I left AA for good, and that worked.


    It is not even a question as to whether or not AA fits the BITE model. Obviously, it does. The cult of Alcoholics Anonymous is clearly as dangerous and destructive if not more so than the most notorious cults in our society. Some of the most tyrannical aspects of AA are not addressed in the BITE model. There is no other cult that has managed to infiltrate the United States court system and have people court ordered to attend its meetings. Under the pretense of being “spiritual, not religious” AA has slipped past the Constitution of the United States and has set up a system of enforced religious indoctrination. This cult has also infiltrated the medical, psychology, psychiatry, and social services fields; there are numerous professionals who will suggest or “prescribe” AA as a viable method of overcoming addiction. Many of these people are not even aware that alternative programs exist. Over 90% of the addiction rehabilitation centers in the United States are based on the 12-step program; very few offer an alternative. The mainstream media almost always portrays 12-step programs in a positive light. Public criticism of these programs creates the same kind of reaction as criticizing a major religion.

    As I brought up earlier, no one joins AA to achieve enlightenment; they join out of fear of dying, going insane, or losing what they have in life, or they were coerced into joining by the court system, employer, or family and friends. This enables AA to create a unique kind of recruiting and indoctrination. Most cults start with promises, then introduce threats. AA starts with threats then introduces more threats. The goal of achieving “serenity” is overshadowed by the goal of not dropping dead from addiction. AA is a cult of necrophilia, a group of people who have become preoccupied with death. Jails, institutions, and death are said to be the end result of addictive drinking. It is common to hear a member say, “I’ve been in jails, I’ve been in institutions, there’s only one more place to go.”


    Steve Hassan is wrong about AA. It is not just that he has misdiagnosed it as a relatively harmless group that does not fit the BITE model, he has also failed to recognize the political importance of AA as a target for anti-cult activism.

    A major part of the frustration in dealing with political activism against cults is the amazing amount of power that these organizations tend to hold. They are usually backed by large amounts of money, legal expertise, and to varying degrees favorable public opinion. AA is a cult that has infiltrated every aspect of our society to the point that it is almost untouchable. The cult dogma has contaminated our culture so much that it is probably the biggest case to crack. Public exposure of AA as a cult is likely to have a serious effect on the court systems, the medical fields, the media, and the amount of power cults will be able to gain in the future. Exposing AA is the first step in creating a multitude of new and exciting methods of dealing with drug and alcohol dependence, and making a difference in our society.

  29. Jeff WJ said,

    This is an absolute fact and one od the great shocks of my lide –
    When I first got sober in Sept of 2005 after falling on my knees and saying this prayer, “God kill me or fix me” AA became my refuge and the source of hope and new friendships. I had several experientially great albei niave years… Now my experience in ‘the rooms” is completely the opposite. Before I describe it to you you must first understand that I live with my sponser essentially because I was homeless and had nowhere else to go and part of that arrangment/agreement is that I attend meetings on a daily basis with him . Ok, now back to what the avg meeting for me is like – I have been sensitized to and every day deal with the regulars and “guests” constantly clearing their throats, wearing at the same time the colors red and black, they sit behind me fumbling with plastic candy wrappers, they tap their feet repeatedly when behind me as well. I’ve walked in in the morning ( Mon – Fri I attend the 8″30am mtg) and they will be having a conversation, rather loudly, about some personal aspect of my life. In this case it was a medication I was taking. There have been a few semi-soubtle attempts at physical intimidation. There was this one time where this woman sat next to me eating loudly with her hands some food she brought in with her. She has supposedly been sober more than enough time to know how ridiculous it is to do something like that. There are other things as well. NOW, one of the strangest things, even though in the “scheme” of things it makes sense, is that before the meeting begins and after it ends, they act and interact with me in an almost normal even polite manner. This MUST take place as to insure plausable deniability for any visitors who might unexpectedly show up. As they have not been sensitized the actions of the mob/members of the group might easily go unnoticed. All they might see is the generally polite and very much “appropriate” way the mob/members interact with me before and after the meeting. So from their perspective its a “perfect crime”. I don’t know about perfect, but its certainly a crime.. The assumed perfection, as it does with so much of what we experoence, lies in the inability to produce and present any hard evidence of such dirty and filthy crime… DO NOT come to the (and you’re gonna love this) “You Get What You Need” group of alchoholics anonymous which is in the Bronx, NY. Unless you’d like to witness what I’ve been telling you about. Or maybe you should come ?
    Don’t forget morning meeting starts at 8:30am and lasts for an hour. How will you notice me if I’m still there, simple, my name is Jeff and I’m an alchoholic….
    Feel free to email me at jeff10552@yahoo.com or send a text to 347-749-2782. You can leave a message as well.
    Thanks for your patience.

  30. Earl said,

    This certainly makes as much sense to me, as the entire AA/NA concept does…

  31. Laura said,

    Been going to the harbor for years… No such things going on. I asure you…only thing that happens to you there…is you stay sober… This written piece proves… Some are sicker than others… God bless

  32. Susan Conley said,

    Not all AA groups are full of criminals when they are paid asinNY by landlords,ex husbands who demand that you attend… I over Manhattan AA ten yes ago. Open meetings are where they flock to if a target is going thereu ccan see the methadone addicts flock to E tenth st. When retired laweenforcement is in there and they are not corrupt the show stops. There was more money around in 2005 07 not as many stalkers and they look like junkies. In BKk AA the Ambassador hotel this started up around me all paid off ,some staff at the hotel then key members Americans were paid off . I went to the USConsulate a lady there listen.Ask AA Bangkok what happened. These are sickvendettas hat destroy great meetings. Lots of trolls here say it doesn’t happen .

  33. Susan Conley said,

    I loved 12 step programs and there must be some that are fine. But look at new members and watch if they are excluding someone when you go to coffee saying they have a long criminal record.. Ihave no record I am still not a felon. Many felons were kinder to me than these addict actors. Same in Thailand math addicts showed up with wild stories and used a so called non lethal weapon on me. It looks like a cellphone. They have stronger weapons they were caught with in hotels and driving by in taxis. See photo bucket oncesanegirl or look up electronic torture see the so called classes in bangkok. Security conference whe ethe Brit teacher murdered the Aussie. The US Embassy sent me homeonDelta the man next to me had a thick odd laptop he players dumb repetitive child’s game on it,the staff moved him then encouraged him to get off in Tokyo. He is in prison now east euro addict,the odd laptop was a weapon . saw one in NY fifth a feline Aryan African who could not use a computer was taught the simple game to use on a long flightorbustrip to torture and harass another target. It’s not SciFi these are inexpensive and the criminals are illegals or desperate addicts or gamblers even.

  34. Susan Conley said,

    Tried one last 12 step rm here in Asheville NC one was red door meeting. It was a warm funny friendly meeting until the money started flowing. Biltmore Housing was involved a female uses poison she made from molds she was from NY and had different social workers huge guys thugs. They were paid off all four houses . Everyone nearly relapsed Ihad been drinking prior to living there. I did not relapse. I don’t use drugs, the police said I would be safer in a shelter. Never again will I ever go into any recovery type house or meeting. Asheville must be very corrupt ,don’t know. Hong Kong AA put a constable from E nglandup for review fired a teacher inAA. Undercover saw all the criminal activity in AA. An

  35. Susan Conley said,

    Indian female from a very good family was tortured for giving me a ride down the mountain from the AA meeting at night.Our best members stopped coming this were ppl high up inHong Kong who believed me. They were very intelligent professionals. One woman wore a fake pregnancy outfit and had a weapon under it. She is in prison she will be sent to trail in NY after.

  36. Susan Conley said,

    Sorry trial in NY she was seen there supposedly taking notes as many St Ange guys in midnight meeting we’re,your most intimate secrets… They were mailed given nosejobs No kidding and reappeared they were on pain pills.Who takes notes in AA? Sick ppl now they just record it. They had girls on the roof who were seen using some weird gadget aka weapon that gaveu a heart attack like feeling. She reappeared in Hong Kong like an obsessed person. She is from Kazakhstan we think she harrassedand druggedmy ex to get to me. On flckr thereare two girls who had fathers in Stasi given safe haven in the US. Here in Asheville 2014 I have heart problems constant harassment in chain stores,houses were bought across from me in Kenilworth Aussie older female and on Westwood. I rented from a nice Buddist family on Westwood nammyho range ppl. They also let bed below Kenilworth and had a car running in the yard all the time older ppl. They are complicit. Its common to see a white suburban out side of town running non stop the engine used for the weapon . AA W AVl had directed conversation they come in and surround the target using signals using weapons from the bathrmor closet. They were rewarded with small motorbikes in Red Door. A guy named Anthony with scars like a suicide on one arm self involve promising money large round shaved head,also using Biltmore housing recovery and running back and forth outside the window.later a guy from east euro family who said he was from Mich and they all seemto

  37. Susan Conley said,

    Think they are part of some big undercover operation they are sick ppl who wouldnt pass a security check. They hate women hate sex workers,hate female addicts. They trash them for things they themselves have done.

  38. Susan Conley said,

    In didn’t write feline African ayrayan? I said a thin illegal African fifth ave Manhattan library was using a game theycheered when he could learn the simple game. All letters recording torture have disappeared from my AOL acct. My ability to record on yahoo as terminated in Cambodia AA there was OK. Outsider As was a lot of meth addicts and Eurasian kids on motorbikes trying to harass me. as eng afternoon meeting was fine .
    Nc w avl serenity meeting as a joke evenroomed w a harasser there sixtyyrold white man from Minn he used drugs and went to as for over fifteen yes.

  39. Earl said,

    An Orange County man recently released from rehab after three drunken driving convictions died when authorities say a 19-year-old man who had been drinking struck him, a newspaper reported.

    Haitham Gamal, 38, was bicycling in Dana Point when a 2001 Acura hit him on April 29, the Orange County Register reported Friday ( http://bit.ly/1hEBt9S ).

    Gamal was pronounced dead at the scene. The crash occurred a day after Gamal pleaded guilty to a January 2013 DUI in Orange County Superior Court in Santa Ana.

    His lawyer, Walter Cole, says Gamal was on the “road to recovery” after a history of DUI arrests. He had recently completed an intensive rehabilitation program.

    “He was doing the right thing, and somebody hit him that had been drinking,” Cole told the newspaper.

    Authorities have not released the name of the driver.

    Detectives are awaiting blood-test results before they send their investigation to prosecutors for possible criminal charges, said Lt. Jeff Hallock, spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

    The Acura flipped on its top after hitting Gamal, and the driver and his 18-year-old passenger were treated for moderate injuries at a hospital.

    Cole said Gamal leaves behind a wife and young children.

    He was sentenced the day before he died to five years of probation and 45 days in jail. He was going to serve 20 days in jail and then 45 days of home confinement. Cole said Gamal didn’t have to report to jail for a couple of months.

    Gamal pleaded guilty to DUI in 2005 and in 2009 — the latter conviction getting him three years of probation. He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor public intoxication in 2012 and then was arrested on his third DUI about a month later.

  40. Kenny Moreno said,

    I just moved to Dana point live in seabrook apartments and I don’t give a fuck if they know who I am. But the apartment management is ok with it and allows the people to be harassed. The police I believe are also involved funny how quiet the streets are at night. They claim to be rapest and child molestors. When i leave they claim to have relations with my wife but she doesn’t know I’ve caught her doing strange things when she sleeps .

    Anyhow this city this state this government don’t care about us they just allow these people to run free. God bless us all

  41. Chris Roy Sr. said,

    I was in AA on and off for over 12 years. I left after slowly finding out and gaining evidence, that the membership was riddled with sexual predators, rapists, perverts, and many who were either manipulative egomaniacs, or disturbingly mentally unwell. The most worrying part was, the individuals who claimed to be ‘sober’ the longest, and held controlling, or senior Intergroup posts, were undoubtedly the mentally sickest, and most deeply involved in the sexual exploitation of vulnerable women. I do not believe AA to be of any worth to alcoholics in general, and potentially a very dangerous organisation to get involved with. It is 2014, there are many other ways people can get support with alcohol issues, ALL have far greater efficacy than the Death Cult Alcoholics Anonymous.

  42. Fran said,

    If possible id love to speak or be able to contact Dana from this article. I’ve so much to add w so much I’ve learned from a terrible experience with worse and also great members.
    I would love too be able to speak to her.

    • Fran said,

      Im trying to make this recognized and as so many are genuinely unaware of even these occurrences and these other types of behaviors need to become noted
      And removed from and keep all else enjoying and wjom just fun are having and try helping others..

  43. susan said,

    I have no problem bashing AA. I will do it until it doesn’t exist and is in oblivion. What people don’t realize is that it is a spiritual program. It is counterfeit doctrine because Bill W. claimed to see God ina spiritual awakening. What a hook for desparate people needing to feel special. Not only was that experience not in the presence of God, he was tripping on hallucinogens given to him at Townes Hospital for 50 hours straight. Most people under the influence see unreal things and experience incredible elation like he described. He was an opportunist and turned his drug trip into business that paid off for him handsomely and was treated like a messiah. That beat being a failed stockbrocker. He didn’t stop there. He aggressively pursued the supernatural by conjuring spirits with Dr Bob using a Ouija board. Ask any Christian scholar about the ramifications of dabbling in the occult. I firmly believe he did contact spirits and receive AA’s demon doctrine from them. What a doctrine it is. Making people with alcohol and addiction problems feel like an exclusive group. I don’t know how many times I heard people in those meetings say they were grateful they were alcoholics because they got to work AA’s miraculous program. Looking back, I see that they were deluded and directed psychologically to have this thought pattern. Everything was for the progression of the AA program but nothing for the individual. A person’s natural instincts and needs were discouraged if they in any way conflicted with AA. I was not thinking clearly then but the god they kept talking about was AA and it was to be worshipped. Your will had to be surrendered to it. I was always fighting it because of my Christian background and knowledge of biblical principles. They did everything in their power to break me. I have horror stories but the bottom line is a Christian only bows to Jesus Christ. There is nothing they hate more even though a lot of people there claim to be Christian. You can’t serve Satan and God at the same time. I think Bill W. worshipped Lucifer without a doubt. I doubt their salvation. Those people are still harassing me after almost 2 years out. I’ve had my computer hacked with threatening messages. Just found out there was surveillance on my phone. They did the false rumors, back-stabbing, gaslighting. ect. My former sponsor even told me to commit suicide once when I had relapsed was very depressed. Just a suggestion, huh?

    • Richie said,

      Get a gun, and “STAND YOUR GROUND”…once these sick elements of the AA/NA/12-step cult realize that something very bad can happen to them…they will back-off…no one can, or will,protect you, but YOU…
      DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO…let the local D.A. know that the circumstances have reached a point, that if the Police refuse to do their job, then you will “protect yourself” from these law breaking sick elements…Consider also, that typically…District Attorney’s, Judges and Law Enforcement people may well be products of AA/NA and 12-step programs, so they may not be sympathetic to your concern(s)…just inform them (document your communication) of the circumstances, so that you will be able to show credibility and your sincere law abiding intentions….”if and when” you end-up in court/litigation for protecting yourself..

  44. Jay said,

    The mantra of all 12-step AA/NA: “Misery loves company”…

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